Engineering Explained: If Gas cars are banned, Can The Grid Handle Electric Cars?

[rodmacpherson]

Solar Electricity became the cheapest electricity in human history last year. In 2008 it would have taken 20,000 sq miles of panels to power the entire usa. That number has come down dramatically as panel efficiency went up. Just to put it in perspective.... coal mining took up 13,000 Sq miles.

It is cheap, but it isn't built yet. It will take some time to get there.

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[alan auerbach]

Not if local utilities have anything to say about it.Not even enough to cover our daily use most of the year.

They're fighting solar on homes tooth and nail. Mostly with forcing of EV rates that are higher.

Eventually I expect them to lose. But not for many years.

"Our utility won't let us install more than 5kW."

I'm sure that's 5kW max fed back into the grid. If you feed it direct to something other (like an electric vehicle) I can't see how the utility would know about it, or have a say if it did know.

 

[Cyber_Dav]

"Our utility won't let us install more than 5kW."

I'm sure that's 5kW max fed back into the grid. If you feed it direct to something other (like an electric vehicle) I can't see how the utility would know about it, or have a say if it did know.

You need permits to get solar installed (legally anyway). That is how the utility knows the size of system you are getting. So they won't approve the permit for a system over 5kW.

Now it is true I could do 1/2 off-grid and 1/2 grid tied. But then I would need two breaker panels without any interconnection allowed. What circuits go on which panel?

Cost and complexity just became too much and I canceled the install.

I was having Tesla do solar roof tiles, but they are not flexible for weird installs like this would have become.

 

[CappyJax]

The US currently has the capability to produce 1.2 terawatts of power. If all of that was running, we could produce 10.5 petawatt/hours of energy per year. That is more than 2.5 times our current consumption. Power generation isn't the issue, it is delivery. And that isn't an issue if home chargers are limited to nighttime charging.

The average power draw over 12 hours of charging at home would be 1,000W. Less than an air conditioner.

The vast majority of people are not going to have fast chargers at home, and even the ones that do aren't going to fast charge everyday because that will reduce their battery life.

 

[Crissa]

You need permits to get solar installed (legally anyway). That is how the utility knows the size of system you are getting. So they won't approve the permit for a system over 5kW.

No. Well, you need a permit for a system that feeds into your house, but you don't need one for anything not connected to the grid and not permanent on the site (like fold up pieces, on a temporary structure or vehicle), or low voltage.

The utility cannot have say over your panels that only feed into, say, a backup battery.

The fire safety of not blocking egress, having disconnects, and in some places giving them space to attic vent (a dangerous procedure that should be retire) apply, of course.

-Crissa

 

[Pappy]

Interesting discussion but it seems a bit dated as he states at least twice “In 2020”? Locally, I’ve watched coal fired power plants shut down without a sustainable solution to replace that energy. I’ve watched population growth across the states? Recently issues in Texas basically shut down the state where Joe Biden declared a disaster? I live in Colorado where sun shines more than not. I would hope that both State and Federal Governments might increase incentives or add programs that might attract more residents to manage and control their power consumption? But, BIG power companies are in the business to make money so I’m sure that won’t happen. I think when I receive my CT, I’ll have invested in a solar system that will take care of my electrical power requirements with energy to spare for the future. Not sure everybody will be so fortunate to do so but if those that can will, it may help keep the market competitive and the energy rates under control.

 

[rr6013]

Not if local utilities have anything to say about it. Our utility won't let us install more than 5kW. Not even enough to cover our daily use most of the year.

They're fighting solar on homes tooth and nail. Mostly with forcing of EV rates that are higher.

Eventually I expect them to lose. But not for many years.

Must be SDG&e

 

[Cyber_Dav]

Must be SDG&e

Local co-op. About 4,000 customers. Rates much better than SDG&E, but they don't like solar!

 

[ThomasG]

...

.... Cars that don't have smart charging should not be sold or purchased. Full stop. Everyone charges at night. Problem solved. I'm eyeballing from his chart this next part so take this with a grain of salt...
...

No charging during the day? What about people on trips or who work nights? I presume they could get exceptions, but who from?

Off topic, I would really like to see solar farms on the roof tops of large business and homes rather than covering land that could be in vegetation. Vegetation helps reduce temperatures. Concur that covering parking lots would be a good plan as well.

 

[ElectricSheep]

No. Well, you need a permit for a system that feeds into your house, but you don't need one for anything not connected to the grid and not permanent on the site (like fold up pieces, on a temporary structure or vehicle), or low voltage.

The utility cannot have say over your panels that only feed into, say, a backup battery.

The fire safety of not blocking egress, having disconnects, and in some places giving them space to attic vent (a dangerous procedure that should be retire) apply, of course.

-Crissa

Whenever I install solar, I have no real interest in feeding excess onto the grid as they don't compensate you proportionally to what they charge to use their energy. I will charge battery storage on my own property. My principal goal would be to be off-grid, but after talking to someone who actually did it for a decade I would have to have 4 power walls as he had to change his entire lifestyle and consider which light bulb to use or not. Times may be much different now with the power wall and its capacity to store energy, but I would love to hear some real life stories.

 

[Teslaman]

Like I was attempting to explain. With Net metering you plug in your car, or ALL your energy needs at night from the grid/power company for free, as long as you have more energy CREDITS sent to them during the day with your solar.
Your hookup to the grid is 2-way street. you send them your excess power from the solar. They send you back energy at night or times when the solar isn't making enough.

And, it all performs better with devices like Powerwalls. Not only do you have instant emergency power, but YOU are able to control when you buy and sell back to the grid.

The newer Tesla cellpacks, could offer this type of VtG (vehicle to grid) option. Will be a brave new world.

 

[TessP100D]

If autonomous vehicles break out in numbers that ARK Invest and Tesla are predicting, there will be far fewer vehicles on the road, but being used for far longer periods. There is a huge amount of energy needed to produce gas, diesel and the making of ICE vehicles. Solar will be far more used in the near future, also with far more homes having their own power plants. It will all work out well.

sorry but that’s not happening anytime soon. if ever.

 

[DarinCT]

No charging during the day? What about people on trips or who work nights? I presume they could get exceptions, but who from?

Off topic, I would really like to see solar farms on the roof tops of large business and homes rather than covering land that could be in vegetation. Vegetation helps reduce temperatures. Concur that covering parking lots would be a good plan as well.

Uhh...I'm not sure you got what problem I was talking about. If people charged at night, the problem that YT video talked about would be solved. Do you people need to charge during the day? Of course. How and who and the details are a policy issue. That's a whole different thread about politics, behavior, liberty, economics, etc.

 

[Crissa]

No charging during the day? What about people on trips or who work nights? I presume they could get exceptions, but who from?

Well, if you're away from home, you'd pay retail price for your energy, not the cheaper overnight price. And places with solar panels would want to top up vehicles on bright days that solar power's price goes negative.

So it would vary wildly, but the pricing scheme would encourage people who plug in when they get home ...to have timers that would charge their car later at night. This is also better for the battery, as they prefer not to sit around at full charge. The timer can make sure the car is at full and warmed when you're ready to leave in the morning, which would save power and increase performance.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

It’s fools gold to think you can build enough windmills or solar panels to support our entire grid AND the entire transportation sector.

In terms of long-term planning for energy infrastructure, I'm curious why you think there is a limit on generating all of our electrical needs with using solar, wind and battery storage. In practice, there would be some legacy hydro and nuclear also (because it would make no sense to shut them down once built) but what specifically do you see preventing most of our electrical needs being met with wind, solar and storage?