Robo Taxi Thoughts?

[Dids]

People pay for convenience. In some cases the belief that a RT would be more convenient because you don't have to park etc will be offset by FSD being able to self park.
I think RT will be very popular in cities just as taxis are but I do not think the majority of cars will be public.
FSD will be value add, this means that a private car utility/dollar will increase making it even more affordable. If FSD is 200x better than humans insurance will cost(not the same as price) 200x less.
FSD will speed up traffic, this is a huge aggregate productivity boost and a productivity boost is a wealth boost.
FSD will reduce cost of goods due to robo trucking.
FSD will enlarge the commuter area. People will commute longer trips daily. They will be willing to spend even more time in a car if they are able to do things other than driving.
I think these macro economics point towards less ridesharing, not more and I hope finally kill mass transit.

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[Luke42]

...and I hope finally kill mass transit.

Mass transit definitely has a place.

I rode the bus from my house to my campus-job for years, until I got a job that was off the bus routes.

Riding the bus is definitely the way to go when it works!

Unfortunately, the bus routes in my town are are set up to optimize access to the university, rather than to facilitate carless living. The bus routes are all spokes out from campus -- so, if you need to go from point-to-point around the perimeter of town, it takes a very long time. A "beltway" bus route (or two) would make the system work much better for those of is who aren't currently working on campus.

Grocery stores and doctor's offices are mostly on the "beltway" route, though, which make carless access to those places from non-campus neighborhoods problematic.

When I worked on campus, my car sat for weeks at a time. Saved me a ton of money and aggravation, too.

Being 90% car-free worked great until my job moved and we had more kids -- and then I had to trade my Ford Ranger for a minivan, because the minivan was the right tool for the job.

Public transportation definitely has a place in a well-functioning small city. But, service improvements cost money in perpetuity -- and so the guiding principle for public transportation in my city is the Pareto Principle: they focus on the 20% of the effort that gets 80% of the benefit. Your tax savings at work!

 

[radami1]

Watching and listening to all the Robo Taxi hype here and there and I just wanted to get everybody's thoughts on the matter.

I'm sure there are pros and cons so don't let my opinion shift your thinking and it's just MY OPINION so don't get all defensive or something to that extent. We are all one friendly community here.

My Thoughts....

I like that there are hints of the 1.5 million mile battery/car and I might seem selfish at this point but.... I don't think I want other people riding in my 80k truck unsupervised regardless if it'll make 30+k a year.

I had a bad experience driving for uber in my brand new leather seat Ford Escape Titanium cuz I needed extra cash (at the time don't judge the price of my future CT). Well... this guy smelled and reeked of cigarette smoke and it literally stained my leather seats with that smell for months. I am worried that if I/we robotaxi out our CT and EV's that.. what if some jerk college kid or group or ghetto person throws juice, alcohol, whatever all over my console just because its not theirs? or they trash it just because they can or because they hate Telsas and this is an opportunity to get "revenge" from ICE cars?

Well excuse any language or descriptive words you don't like but I'm just saying it how it is. Thoughts???

Seems like seat covers and floor coverings would cover a lot of sins

 

[OCS12]

I think it’s the intangibles that will hold up FSD becoming legal anytime soon. I’ll use a simple example from last week. There was a nasty accident on the highway. The police had to route us the wrong way down a highway on ramp to get us off the highway. It was a mess using humans to sort it out. Now imagine a machine being told to drive the wrong way down an on ramp. It’s not just Tesla software needed to make this work. It’ll need to know in real time that is now ok.
I genuinely want it to happen, I’m just a realist.

 

[Dids]

Mass transit definitely has a place.

I rode the bus from my house to my campus-job for year's, until I got a job that was off the bus routes.

Riding the bus is definitely the way to go when it works!

Unfortunately, the bus routes in my town are are set up to optimize access to the university, rather than to facilitate carless living. The bus routes are all spokes out from campus -- so, if you need to go from point-to-point around the perimeter of town, it takes a very long time. A "beltway" bus route (or two) would make the system work much better for those of is who aren't currently working on campus.

Grocery stores and doctor's offices are mostly on the "beltway" route, though, which make carless access to those places from non-campus neighborhoods problematic.

When I worked on campus, my car sat for weeks at a time. Saved me a ton of money and aggregation, too.

Being 90% car-free worked great until my job moved and we had more kids -- and then I had to trade my Ford Ranger for a minivan, because the minivan was the right tool for the job.

Public transportation definitely has a place in a well-functioning small city. But, service improvements cost money in perpetuity -- and so the guiding principle for public transportation in my city is the Pareto Principle: they focus on the 20% of the effort that gets 80% of the benefit. Your tax savings at work!

Blech, mass transit is a money pit and subsidized. ( I think everywhere, but somewhere it might be self sustaining) No one loves it! RT is mass transit without the mass.

Oh and while I'm at it... I hope fsd ev kills the stupid bike lanes. They are a stupid inefficient waste. Can you imagine the miles of paved earth devoted to maybe 1000 bicycle per day. Yes I know they work in milder climate higher density European cities. But here they are a farce pushed by well meaning idiots.

 

[Crissa]

It’s not just Tesla software needed to make this work. It’ll need to know in real time that is now ok.
I genuinely want it to happen, I’m just a realist.

That is why Tesla is super-focused on putting all the AI into the car. It needs to know what being waved through means. The Waymo software can also do this, but they don't trust it at all. It has to call home and confirm. Which isn't bad, it's just slower.

I think both approaches are required.

-Crissa

 

[Cyber_Dav]

Oh and while I'm at it... I hope fsd ev kills the stupid bike lanes. They are a stupid inefficient waste. Can you imagine the miles of paved earth devoted to maybe 1000 bicycle per day. Yes I know they work in milder climate higher density European cities. But here they are a farce pushed by well meaning idiots.

Disagree completely. But that is okay Dids, I imagine you said it to yank my chain.

 

[xodarap1]

Seems like seat covers and floor coverings would cover a lot of sins

not nearly enough.

It's still hard for me to see how people would really want to robo out their vehicle.

Maybe its just because of my current job where I have to view what people do for 40+ hours a week in buildings and vehicles in parking lots etc.

This includes reviewing damage, vandalism, personal attacks, abuse and just off the wall, crazy confrontations. Then there is a totally different level when all of that involves substance abuse or altered mental states.

When I think of the robo concept and all those people being destructive and gross in so many ways in vehicles that we would all collectively own.. uh. Lets just say I'd have a hard time getting back into the vehicle, even after it was professionally cleaned.

Maybe i'm just too OCD'd and have seen too much over the years, but man.. I just don't think I could do it for any amount of money.

Steve

 

[Crissa]

Oh and while I'm at it... I hope fsd ev kills the stupid bike lanes. They are a stupid inefficient waste. Can you imagine the miles of paved earth devoted to maybe 1000 bicycle per day.

A bike lane can support more people per minute than people in single-occupant cars in a traffic lane. A thousand bikes a day is more people traversing a piece of pavement than most road lanes see in cars (because most are suburban or rural lanes or parking lots). And a piece of pavement devoted to bikes will last for decades, where a lane meant for cars will need repairs in a year if it get a 1000 cars a day.

tl,dr? Bike lanes are actually very efficient.

Tho they should be grade-separate and multi-use. And we should route parking lots and traffic lanes the long way around pedestrian and bike access.

-Crissa

 

[Dids]

A bike lane can support more people per minute

tl,dr? Bike lanes are actually very efficient

How can a bike lane support more traffic per minute? Because vehicles are smaller? They are also slower... before you say a bicycle gets through a city faster than a car, cars are deliberately slowed via speed limits and lights timed for freq stops. FSD is going to remove the need for 15 mph limits... car lanes are more congested not only because vehicles are larger but because there are more of them.
When I was in Beijing there were huge bike lanes and 1000s of bicycle but they had to stop at red lights and they didn't weave through traffic. They moved at the same speed or slower than car traffic.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

not nearly enough.

It's still hard for me to see how people would really want to robo out their vehicle.

Maybe its just because of my current job where I have to view what people do for 40+ hours a week in buildings and vehicles in parking lots etc.

This includes reviewing damage, vandalism, personal attacks, abuse and just off the wall, crazy confrontations. Then there is a totally different level when all of that involves substance abuse or altered mental states.

When I think of the robo concept and all those people being destructive and gross in so many ways in vehicles that we would all collectively own.. uh. Lets just say I'd have a hard time getting back into the vehicle, even after it was professionally cleaned.

Maybe i'm just too OCD'd and have seen too much over the years, but man.. I just don't think I could do it for any amount of money.

Steve

So using that logic nobody should buy a house or condo and rent it out. Everyone must buy their own living space regardless of ability to afford or lifestyle needs because someone may not take care of it like you do. No vehicles should be leased by Tesla, Toyota or the Big 3. All those Rent-All companies need to close in the off chance someone abuses their stuff. Hm.

Currently people are leasing vehicles without much problem. They rent personal vehicles through organizations like Touro, Hertz, etc. When there is a problem they have a means of recouping damages from the person who rented the vehicle.

I get your reasoning. When I was doing recovery of organ transplant patients I used to think that I would never have a transplant. I saw so many just don’t do well and the pain and suffering they went through. I was discussing this with one of our heart transplant doctors and he said, “You see all of the bad outcomes because that’s the patients you get. In the clinics I get to see all the patients that we helped who have no problems and have great lives.“ I was forming my own selection bias.

Most people are good and honest and will not abuse things. I have a friend who drove for Uber and he has a few stories. The vast majority of his rides were all good. You don’t have to rent your vehicle in the Robo taxi program. If it causes you that much mental anguish to think that someone may, just might puke in your cyber truck, then it isn’t a program for you. For others....

News stories show more and more people are going carless. Not in the Midwest as much or in the rural areas. Large cities definitely have a trend in that way. Perhaps more people will be in the Robo taxi program as the technology fully develops. I don’t know. I think about whether I will do that or not. It would certainly be an option for me while I am at work because otherwise it just sits in the parking lot for 13 hours. There is certainly a fair amount of personal stuff I carry “just in case” which I could store in the vault or one of the storage areas like the Frunk. Probably only twice in the last 27 years have I had to leave unexpectedly. It is an option I will seriously consider.

 

[OneLapper]

Before Covid shut down my side business down, I leased tour buses to bands.

For the most parts, MOST humans are respectful of other peoples stuff. Its not often a bus gets trashed by a band, but it does happen a couple times a year . I charge a $2500 damage deposit which most tour managers scream about. I almost always hand it back over at the end of the tour even if I find something broken or the bus needs a two day cleaning. If you keep the damage deposit, you'll never get that customer back, but I've learned that's not necessarily a bad thing.

If the RT price system has a way to make people liable for their stupid actions, I'd be willing to put my CT into service several hours a day. Hell, steam cleaning a CT is a lot easier than a bus!

 

[Crissa]

How can a bike lane support more traffic per minute? Because vehicles are smaller? They are also slower...

Yes. But they don't have to stack up three seconds apart, either. Even if you have FSD cars ganged together, they're still not as dense as a clot of cyclists.

And if you want those fast FSD lanes, you'll need the bicycle lanes all the more.

-Crissa

 

[chalupacabre]

My CT robotaxi intention is to dumbdown the interior. Cover or replace upholstery and carpeting with durable stain-free materials. Uber/lyft have boilerplate rider contract s regarding damaged property, plus they have credit card access. It's a truck, I expect wear and tear, I will depreciate as allowed, and $0.56/mile deduction.