Metal roof rather than glass on the Cybertruck

[Jhodgesatmb]

Sorry but the way radio works is pretty much defined by physics. The best place for a mobile two-way radio antenna is the center of the roof. It is the highest spot which matters for line of sight communications and it provides the best ground plane. Off center locations affect the direction of the strongest signal and we need omni coverage. I therefore join those who would like the option of a metal roof. I may still buy a Cyber Truck, but every vehicle I've purchased for the last 40+ years has had to accommodate comm gear as a journalist, SAR person and amateur radio operator. This has meant multiple antennas and radios. This hardly matters to most people, but it does matter to me and the F150 with the 40/20/40 seat allows me to yank the middle seat and install a console for comm gear.

This is by no means disparaging the glass roof. It is actually pretty cool, but I would be nervous about cutting holes in it.!

Where the 2 glass panels come together it seems like there is a bar of some kind (and has the upper laser bar light attached) and that would allow for mounting an antenna. The whole roof isn't glass. It is unlikely that this issue has gotten past Tesla.

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[firsttruck]

In engineering I was taught you design for function & reliability first and style second. Form follows function. Style is a veneer you put over the thing instead of trying to shoehorn function in later.

If the item does not get the job done I do not care how pretty it looks.

For me functionality also has it's own beauty.

Like with Italian high performance sports cars ($100K to millions) - look beautiful but most are very unreliable & guite a few are deadly (I think highest per capita rate of catch fire than most other brands).

Glass roof have some scenic beauty but it is very low in functionality and causes great initial expense (fabrication) and in some vehicle use cases cause much more expense later and all this loss for no benefit.

There are many reports of owners of glass roofs having problems with even the factory ceiling/roof mounted items like the sun visors detaching!!!

Here is another thing glass roof makes more difficult.
There are many ceiling/roof mounted accessories that are common in working trucks and many working cars.

With glass roof, every police & fire department has to jump through extra hoops and incur extra expenses for installation of both interior ceiling mount and exterior roof mount equipment.

Many of the departments regular installers will refuse to up-fit glass roof vehicles and face extra liability if glass roof mounted equipment becomes detached. My comment about this is not speculation. Some police departments has specifically mentioned it.

Electric vehicle detractors will us this difficulty and extra expense as reason for their local government to not buy Teslas.

 

[Crissa]

Many of the departments regular installers will refuse ...

Please stop making statements without evidence.

Even if that's true, laziness is a common result. As I pointed out before, there are many ways to solve this problem... And we don't even know if it's a problem, as we don't have the properties of the armor glass known yet.

It's just a math problem. A trace on the upper surface and then connecting to the chassis would work, too.

It's not like there's one way to make an antenna. You just need a ratio of wire to absorb parallel waves and in the case of a vehicle, some way to not get caught up in the electrostatic potential of the vehicle. That's really simple.

Stop worrying about it so much. Embrace modern materials.

-Crissa

(Compared to an outside signal, a vehicle is a giant array of capacitors, hence the ground plane)

 

[firsttruck]

There are a number of police departments using glass roof model 3s. Before you give up on the idea I suggest you reach out to one or more of them to find out what they are doing and how.

The YouTube Channel NOW YOU KNOW featured one department on their show and the police spokesman discussed their use. Watch that episode, then contact that department with your concerns. They seemed to be eager to speak with other departments. I would also suggest contacting the YouTube channel directly with your question and they will probably be able to direct you to other departments that use a Tesla. They may even like your question enough to feature that has a show.

The police department did mention that they did have trouble getting their police equipment installed because most installers refused to work on Tesla.

 

[showmemo]

This seems like a square peg/round hole issue.

 

[Crissa]

This seems like a square peg/round hole issue.

When there are a bunch of other pegs lying about one could use.

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

Please stop making statements without evidence.

There is evidence.

Even if that's true, laziness is a common result. As I pointed out before, there are many ways to solve this problem...

Yes, some ways that all are Rube Goldberg workarounds for a problem that did not exist before.
Solutions that are sub-optimal.

Mounting antennas, light bars and interior ceiling mounting of radios/consoles is easy and secure when roof is metal.
The same thing is difficult and less reliable while being time wasting and more expensive.

And we don't even know if it's a problem, as we don't have the properties of the armor glass known yet.

Actual we do know the properties and there are problems.

The biggest issue is use case.
In a passenger car there are some benefits to having a glass roof.

But for many work vehicles there are NO benefits and only complications & increased costs.

It's just a math problem. A trace on the upper surface and then connecting to the chassis would work, too.

It's not like there's one way to make an antenna. You just need a ratio of wire to absorb parallel waves and in the case of a vehicle, some way to not get caught up in the electrostatic potential of the vehicle. That's really simple.

Stop worrying about it so much. Embrace modern materials.

Do not embrace a material just because it is modern.
Embrace if it has significant cost advantage & superior function.

In this case glass roof has NO functional benefit for work applications and considerable costs. There are enough issues that many business/government customers would buy from a Tesla competitor to avoid the glass roofs.

Also armor glass is nothing new. Been around a long time.

In many cases a glass roof on Cybertruck has not only no benefit but has negative benefit.

Modifications that are trivial on most metal roof vehicles is now problematic.

 

[Crissa]

There is evidence.

...Then share it, please.

Just calling modern antenna 'rube goldberg' doesn't make it so.
Just saying 'NO benefit' doesn't make it so.

Glass is harder, easier to clean; glass cabins improve situational awareness and have a mood brightening effect. Those are all benefits, whether or not you want them.

-Crissa

PS 'Been around a long time' I suppose that's why Alon didn't enter military testing until this century and patents on ceramic glass are still in effect?

 

[Ehninger1212]

Right about now I am really wanting to see all these antenna set up's you guys are using.. they must be legit.

 

[Gvardaman]

Sounds like a business opportunity! Removing the factory glass roof panel and welding on a stainless steel plate.
But as stated previous;y, this may be a non-issue. Until we know the properties of the roof material, we don’t know how 9t works as a ground plane or how easy it is to drill through.

I think what is more telling is that this thread hasn’t blown up with hundreds of “me too” posts. maybe you should post a poll to see how many people would also prefer this option?
if it is a large enough percentage, maybe it can be adopted as an option...

 

[FutureBoy]

Right about now I am really wanting to see all these antenna set up's you guys are using.. they must be legit.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

There is evidence.



Yes, some ways that all are Rube Goldberg workarounds for a problem that did not exist before.
Solutions that are sub-optimal.

Mounting antennas, light bars and interior ceiling mounting of radios/consoles is easy and secure when roof is metal.
The same thing is difficult and less reliable while being time wasting and more expensive.



Actual we do know the properties and there are problems.

The biggest issue is use case.
In a passenger car there are some benefits to having a glass roof.

But for many work vehicles there are NO benefits and only complications & increased costs.




Do not embrace a material just because it is modern.
Embrace if it has significant cost advantage & superior function.

In this case glass roof has NO functional benefit for work applications and considerable costs. There are enough issues that many business/government customers would buy from a Tesla competitor to avoid the glass roofs.

Also armor glass is nothing new. Been around a long time.

In many cases a glass roof on Cybertruck has not only no benefit but has negative benefit.

Modifications that are trivial on most metal roof vehicles is now problematic.

I think we all now know your opinion; you don't want a glass roof on your truck. We get it. Can we leave it at that? None of us is a Tesla representative so even if you could convince anyone to go along with you it wouldn't mean anything. If you think you might be listened to in a constructive manner, write to Tesla and see what they can do for you.

I want the glass roof. I love the glass on the Model 3 and Y and I am not a contractor so I will try to be careful with items I put on whatever rack I can get (just like I do not and always have), but I can see in lots of commercial trucks where clearly being fast was more important that protecting the car.

If the glass cannot stand up to that kind of abuse it really has no place in a commercial vehicle. And neither does steel. As soon as it bends or creases it is compromised and begins to rust. The glass might even be better in that way. I couldn't agree more that the truck design should be fueled 100% by functional considerations - but isn't that what Tesla has been doing with the CT without exception?

 

[firsttruck]

QUOTE="Crissa, post: 29963, member: 6398"]
Just saying 'NO benefit' doesn't make it so.

Glass is harder,
[/QUOTE]

Yes, maybe some glass types are harder than some metals.

Does not mean all glass types are harder than all metals.

Is armor glass (without cracking) as good as 3mm cold-rolled 30x type stainless steel?

* medium sized rock completely punctures metal car roof & even goes through seat.
Toyota van Build Quality Tested As Giant Rock Strikes Its Roof
Vehicles are not made to withstand such a natural calamity
By Shaheer Anwar
June 4, 2020

That rock that went through the Toyota van, would armor glass (without cracking) have stopped the rock from going through?

How about 3mm cold-rolled 30x type stainless steel?

I have not seen any evidence that a thin armor glass (without cracking) can compete with 3mm cold-rolled 30x type stainless steel for impact resistance.

In fact most of us saw a demo where the glass cracked and the 3mm cold-rolled 30x type stainless steel did not even dent.

And yes the not cracking part is important. Cracked glass needs to be replaced. Dented stainless steel can be left alone and never fixed.
So TCO for armor glass roof will be higher.

 

[ElectricSheep]

The OP is concerned about the potential for breakage during off-roading. That would certainly be a valid concern but it would affect all of the glass on any off-road vehicle. Do we worry about windshields and other glass breaking on Jeeps, etc? No. If the glass breaks due to a thrown rock, we replace it as a cost of having fun. I don’t know if I have ever had a rock thrown to the roof of my Jeeps or other 4x4s but have never noticed rock-like dings on the roof. For vehicles with open cockpits have any of you been hit by flying debris? If so, at high enough velocity to tear clothing or skin, because it would do that before breaking glass. I haven’t. So that addresses the probability of such damage for any vehicle, which the OP didn’t address. That said, the armor glass is supposed to be much stronger than ordinary glass, so all windows on the CT should be better for off roading than glass on any other off-road vehicle ever made.

I have never had the issue with rocks being thrown at my Jeep either while off-roading. I believe that the speed at which you are traveling may be a variable and I am sure that the slower speeds you find while Jeeping helps reduce damage from rocks. I would rather be able to be able to remove the roof, although the CT is probably incapable of matching the same sensation of a topless Jeep.

 

[Ehninger1212]

Look, given the fact that this particular piece is basically a big, flat square. You could really just remove the glass and use adhesive to stick a big piece of thick SS in its place... Maybe ad some insulation to the underside? If you want it that bad it really would be a weekend job.