Are the specs achievable?

[Akgolf]

FSD may never be perfect or a substitute in all circumstances, but I believe it will be much safer than the average driver if used properly.

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[MUSK007]

Yea. .... ok.

 

[Newton]

I have serious issues with tesla using their costumers (and by extension everyone else on the road) as beta testers.
Im sure a couple people have died because of it. While lane splitting on a motorcycle here in CA I see far too many people reading or playing on their phone while autopilot is on. Yes this is the drivers fault, not teslas.
But other manufactures who have lane assist stuff dont market it as "autopilot", or "Full self driving" As we know the average consumer is pretty dumb and dosnt read anything. So all that fine print and things you should, or shouldnt be doing is almost irrelevant. IMO

I keep debating whether or not to get it... it really dosnt make sense to buy an $8k option unless it can make me money. as the ONLY reason I would want fsd is to put it on a self driving network. I doubt they are even working on that as they are still trying to find people to work on the FSD stuff... alot of job openings for that area at tesla.

 

[CyberMoose]

I think that while it might not be the most ethical thing to do, using customers as beta testers is almost necessary in my opinion. Tesla can only achieve full self driving if they can test it and if you just have specific testers who go around driving the Tesla's with the FSD mode (which they also have that) than it will take much much longer and there is a greater chance to miss situations that could be improved upon. I'm sure that Tesla considers the safety of everyone who is driving with these features enabled and I actually really respect how they are staggering the releases.

For example, a recent update allows a Tesla to go through traffic lights and has stop sign control. However, Elon has stated that the Tesla is ready to also make turns...so why don't they enable that too? I have no doubt that the recent update excluded turning because they want to collect more data from Teslas that are going through an intersection on autopilot. I also respect Elon because he isn't using his customers to test things that he wants to use, he is testing these updates in his own vehicles before it's released to the public, and i'm sure that they are obviously testing these updates in a controlled environment before it's released to Elon and Tesla test vehicles.

 

[Crissa]

FSD is like putting on your traction devices. Why wouldn't you opt for more help driving?

Your story supports buying FSD, MUSK007, not opting out.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

as the ONLY reason I would want fsd is to put it on a self driving network.

Your decision is an easy one. Don't order it.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I just want the truck to come in at the price quoted without any extra expense besides adding FSD, doc fees, registration, and insurance. What I fear is the price will be there but if you want the onboard compressor, AC outlet, Homelink, premium connectivity, vault cover, etc. that will cost you an additional $$$$. Look at how they cut out things with the Model 3. No more frunk carpet or hooks, no 14/50 mobile charge adapter, no lifetime premium connectivity, no Homelink, etc. Even the size of the frunk has recently changed. Remember the early buyers crying about the headliner material change? We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out and hope for the best.

I never expected lifetime connectivity or Homelink and they were never promised for the CT, but all the important things Tesla promised need to be there and I expect only more from Tesla, not less. Tesla really doesn’t do options. Ok, they charge for a trailer hitch, but who doesn’t. So maybe we should look at that list of features that are on the features thread and see what happens. We have over a year to fret over it, do you really want to start now?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Elon says a lot of stuff. I was offered back in 2017 when I purchased my car FSD. I was told it would be amazing. I of course didn't pay for something that wasn't available then, but instead purchased Tesla stock. Did I make the correct call?

Folks if FSD ever gets here.. say in the next 10 years, then and only then will I ever even consider it. I don't think it will ever work right. I don't believe it. My opinion is save or invest your money and quit drinking the FSD Kool-Aid.

I believe you did the right thing buying stock, and FSD in 2017 wasn’t good enough to spend the money on. When my wife got her M3 in 2019 I was pleasantly surprised. If I were going on a cross-country trip it would definitely reduce my stress. Around town, not yet. So whatever it is called it is getting better and is good enough for me, now, that I have no problem investing in it for 2 years from now. If that is FSD Kool-Aid then I guess Elon Musk is my Jimmy Jones.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I have serious issues with tesla using their costumers (and by extension everyone else on the road) as beta testers.
Im sure a couple people have died because of it. While lane splitting on a motorcycle here in CA I see far too many people reading or playing on their phone while autopilot is on. Yes this is the drivers fault, not teslas.
But other manufactures who have lane assist stuff dont market it as "autopilot", or "Full self driving" As we know the average consumer is pretty dumb and dosnt read anything. So all that fine print and things you should, or shouldnt be doing is almost irrelevant. IMO

I keep debating whether or not to get it... it really dosnt make sense to buy an $8k option unless it can make me money. as the ONLY reason I would want fsd is to put it on a self driving network. I doubt they are even working on that as they are still trying to find people to work on the FSD stuff... alot of job openings for that area at tesla.

I see far too many people reading and playing on their phones who don’t even have autopilot. In fact, it seems to be the vast majority of them. I for one would rather autopilot driving than them. But I agree that if your only reason for having autopilot is to make money in a self-driving network, save your money and don’t get it. It is one thing to have a car that can perform the functions of driving. It is another to have it perform them correctly in context, and even more to have the public policy and regulations in place to allow an autonomous ride-hailing service. I bet that is at least 10 years away.

 

[CyberG]

For those of you afraid to drive with autopilot on:

Q2 2020. In the 2nd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.53 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilotengaged. For those driving without Autopilotbut with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.27 million miles driven. - Tesla

 

[CyberMoose]

For those of you afraid to drive with autopilot on:

Q2 2020. In the 2nd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.53 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilotengaged. For those driving without Autopilotbut with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.27 million miles driven. - Tesla

I was going to quote this statistic as well but decided not to. The number of accidents without auto pilot is actually more impressive than the auto pilot because the safety features are on basically all the time. The reason that I wasn't as impressed with the much better statistic for driving with autopilot is because the majority of miles driven with autopilot engaged is highways. Even if the recent update for traffic lights and stop signs, it still isn't making any turns. The most common type of car accident is side collision which happens during a turn most of the time.

I'm not doubting that autopilot will still come out on top when intersection turning is enabled in the next big update, but i'm sure the gap between man and machine will close a little. However, I don't think the software will be the reason for this, I just think the software will have a much harder time avoiding someone who just ran a red light.

I would really like to see a statistic that shows similar data but can show how many of these accidents was the fault of autopilot. I know that autopilot isn't perfect yet but I would put my money on autopilot being the victim of a lot of accidents in that study.

 

[ldjessee]

I’m glad you think it great. I don’t. It for a second would I trust it with my family’s life’s or yours.

But you trust people on their phone, people who can barely see, people who have almost no experience at all behind the wheel, people who are so nervous about being behind the wheel they extremely over-react, etc and so on... There are things on the road RIGHT NOW more dangerous than a Tesla on Autopilot.
If FSD makes the majority of people an average driver on the roads right now, how much safer would you and your family be?

Look at the safety numbers of Tesla's miles per accident vs the general populace, at least here in the US.

Having had a car totaled by a professional driver re-ending me (and him somehow keeping his commercial license), I tend to think that the bell curve of driving skill could be greatly improved by FSD.

If you and everyone in your family will always be a better driver than the average, you never have to buy it or use it. For those who have been tired behind the wheel... or upset, or distracted, or had the sun in their eyes at the wrong moment... I hope FSD comes out fast, with a verifiable test that it and all automated systems have to pass. And not just virtual, but like a real world obstacle course driven by the autonomous system.

 

[ldjessee]

I was going to quote this statistic as well but decided not to. The number of accidents without auto pilot is actually more impressive than the auto pilot because the safety features are on basically all the time. The reason that I wasn't as impressed with the much better statistic for driving with autopilot is because the majority of miles driven with autopilot engaged is highways. Even if the recent update for traffic lights and stop signs, it still isn't making any turns. The most common type of car accident is side collision which happens during a turn most of the time.

I'm not doubting that autopilot will still come out on top when intersection turning is enabled in the next big update, but i'm sure the gap between man and machine will close a little. However, I don't think the software will be the reason for this, I just think the software will have a much harder time avoiding someone who just ran a red light.

I would really like to see a statistic that shows similar data but can show how many of these accidents was the fault of autopilot. I know that autopilot isn't perfect yet but I would put my money on autopilot being the victim of a lot of accidents in that study.

Double is not that good?

And what about that statistic over the national average here in the US?

And with faster reaction time, the computer can apply brakes, regenerative brakes, and possibly even start turning, all before I have had time to tell my legs and arms to do something different, let alone for them to start fighting inertia to move.

Now, where it is not great is understanding intent, knowing from the way that person is not even paying attention to me, never looks at me, I am going to guess they have not registered me and assume that if I let them, they will hit me.

Riding a motorcycle in the US is something to do only when you are fully awake and paying attention to every detail, which has made me a better driver... but I am not perfect. If you asked my wife, I am not even that good.

Comparing FSD to the best is not the point, compare FSD to the 50% at or below the average driver's skill... or those drivers that might momentarily drop below the 50% average due to something. Like a bee, or the time I got rear ended by a lady driving back from her husband's funeral. She had a perfect driving record, no tickets nor accidents in 50 years. She was arguably a better driver than I was then and maybe even now... but she was not right then.

 

[MUSK007]

Maybe the Model S driver in North Carolina who crashed into a Sherrif’s car now understands what I have always known. Ap isn’t safe and FSD will never be safe.

 

[CyberMoose]

I was not saying that autopilot isnt amazing, it is. It's also amazing that the average miles driven per accident is also amazing. I just don't think that it should be compared to average miles driven by people because the types of manuevers are different.

I think autopilot will always be better than the average person. Clearly Musk007 disagrees but that's just because Musk007 is one of the best and most aware drivers in the world. His reaction time is better than a computer and he has better visibility than several cameras in every direction with sensors and radar.

Once we get in the realm of actual full self driving of level 4 where the car can drive itself and do everything we can in almost every situation, I believe that the data will show that we are a lot safer with computers designed to drive instead of people. Once we are at level 5, I would feel a lot safer to see a driverless car than a person behind the wheel. I think once Tesla brings out the big update they are planning, which will allow turning at intersections, we will probably be at level 3