New Battery Range & Pack Architecture [Announced at Battery Day]

[Crissa]

There is simply no way to slice it in which charging a BEV does not take more time than filling up with petrol. ...

But that's not everything you do in a trip. You don't just fill up the gas tank. You stand in line to pay for it. You gotta go pee. You drive eight hours and you need to eat. You need to get caffeine, you need water. Google directions don't account for these.

The last few year I've been counting these interactions, and the total transit time and they're coming up to equal tomorrow's Tesla charging rates. Yeah, today not all the chargers are fast enough. But by the time we're getting our trucks?

Just take the little breaks, stretch your legs, rest your eyes, and refill your tummy. Drive safer.

-Crissa

...And unlike an engine-powered car, electrics don't lose range to construction or traffic. They gain it.

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[happy intruder]

With the newly designed battery I suspect CT Dual motor may have a new range of 350 -375 miles. It will accomplish this on less cells that are more energy dense. Also fewer cell result in less weight which make CT a light lighter vehicle. The new battery design will help make CT stronger in it's unibody design with the new concept of battery tray. The charging times will decrease due to tabless battery design, plus I think CT will have more HP and faster 0-60 times.
The price will probably stay the same since the new technology is costly to implement.
I focused on dual motor since that is my reservation choice.
Now I really can't wait.

since the dual motor is first in line for production, if they have the new battery, could one assume that the tri-motor being second on the list will also have the new battery?

 

[Crissa]

PS, if you're going 1200 miles, that's just past the break point that you'd better have a car full of people to be better than flying.

Not to mention faster. And if alone, maybe cheaper.

-Crissa

 

[happy intruder]

Some of my best ideas come during the morning poop....

oh boy...reading this now is beginning to stink....

 

[shaneaus]

PS, if you're going 1200 miles, that's just past the break point that you'd better have a car full of people to be better than flying.

Not to mention faster. And if alone, maybe cheaper.

-Crissa

Look... You're stop and go pee, relax, take a break responses are merely demonstrating that even though you read my comments and those like mine - you just are unable to comprehend that some people just don't have the luxury of time that you must have. It isn't an option. So, please stop promoting it to those who are stating it isn't an option.

I can drive my Ice truck to Colorado to ski and back on $250 in gas. I've done it many times. With two sons that is three round trip plane tickets... And, the time of year we were required to go due to circumstances meant that the place we went a) had no airport and b) was a 45 minute drive one way to the slopes. Even if we flew someplace else (that wasn't guaranteed to have snow) - 3 round trip tickets would be more expensive. So, your argument about driving being cheaper is invalid for my circumstances. But, your continued responses to those you don't agree with regarding range just demonstrate that you are unable to comprehend our arguments. I don't say this to be mean. I just am trying to relate that it is possible that your life experience just does not allow for you to understand my life experience or those who want to use this truck for a hot shot business and/or don't have time due to their job constraints to sit around for 15 minutes every couple hundred miles and relax. Or, that they need to tow a really heavy trailer/load and can't stop every 150-200 miles for the charge to be topped off.

In your experience everything can be handled through a bit more patience. In the experience of many of us there simply isn't enough time.

The patience you advocate in my vacation trip means we don't have five days to relax and ski/snowboard - we have three! The rush to get there and back is totally worth it! We each sleep a third of the trip anyway!

In a business example time IS money! I have friends who would like to use the CT to hot shot.... But, in many cases the faster they make the trip the more money they make. Or, at least, if they don't make the trip in a certain amount of time they get penalized financially. So, every mile of range can count - or, make the truck more viable.

The "you don't need the range" argument is only applicable to those who have no need for the range. It is NOT applicable to those who do - regardless, of how many times it is repeated - it STILL won't be applicable.

However, the closer the CT gets to 600 or 700 miles on a charge the more all of these concerns start to fade away! If one can make a couple of relatively short charging stops to cover 1200-1400 miles. That's a different game. And, if one is towing a heavy load and can go 300 miles, pull over top off in 30 minutes and make it another 300... Well, that might cover many of the medium hot shot runs. The savings in gas would be huge. And, hopefully, we aren't that far away. I just wish I could get a dual motor with the longer range as I don't need the third motor - just more range.

 

[Crissa]

Look... You're stop and go pee, relax, take a break responses are merely demonstrating that even though you read my comments and those like mine - you just are unable to comprehend that some people just don't have the luxury of time ...

...And you're proving you don't read or bother to actually calculate the average time of the transit, period.

If you don't have luxury of time, why are you spending so much money on driving?

-Crissa

 

[shaneaus]

...And you're proving you don't read or bother to actually calculate the average time of the transit, period.

If you don't have luxury of time, why are you spending so much money on driving?

-Crissa

I did read and I have calculated the average time of transit. I even responded to an excellent comment by someone else who did an excellent summary of a calculated drive. You simply CHOOSE to associate a LOT more time to dilly dalley around when "refueling." We don't. Our stops begin when we pull up to the pump. When the tank is full everyone better be inside or running to get to the truck. MOST stops at least one of us is asleep. Every time you commented you indicated that people shouldn't or don't do that. Maybe, YOU don't. But, my sons and I DO. We don't go inside to pay for gas - we pay via cc at the pump. We don't go inside to buy water /etc. Drinks, snacks, etc are packed in a cooler before we leave. The ONLY reason to go inside is to pee.

"luxury of time" - as a divorced father the highlight of my year and my sons' year was our annual snowboard/ski trip. I could only afford one big trip a year and that was our favorite! I had them for one week during Christmas break (the week before the day). That was it - seven days. I would drop them off on Christmas Eve at about 10pm at their mother's. There was no leeway because school was at one end and Momma's Christmas Day and dinner was at the other.

I've a friend who is a hot shot delivery driver and sometimes every single minute delay was costing the customer thousands of dollars. If there wasn't a need to gas up the truck wasn't stopped. If it was late at night with no traffic he stated would pee in a bottle while driving. No luxury with time when millions of dollars of machinery and a bunch of people are waiting on a crucial part to get to work. The attraction of an EV in that industry is there are less parts and the truck is less likely to break down. The range needs to be longer because many of those jobs require towing decently heavy loads.

As to why spend so much money on driving? $250? Did you not read my last comment? A) it is cheaper than flying, b) there is no airport even if we desired to fly c) once at the location we would STILL need to drive 45 mins twice a day to go skiing!! So.... Yes, driving was the BEST option.

 

[shaneaus]

There is simply no way to slice it in which charging a BEV does not take more time than filling up with petrol. On a 900 mile trip you would typically charge to 95% at home before departure and then drive down to 10% meaning, if all goes well and you maintian EPA rating like speed, 85% of 500 miles is 425 miles. At that point you would charge to 70% which would take you 27 - 37 minutes depending on the severity of the charger's taper. You would then drive down to 10% again giving you 60% of 500 miles or 300 miles. You would now be at 10% and 725 miles from home with 200 miles to go so you would charge for a second time to 60% which would take 22 to 27 minutes. It's 5 miles per percent so the remainder of the trip would require 40% and you would arrive at the destination with 20% reserve so you could charge to only 50% for 10% reserve and save 5 - 7 minutes (17 - 20 minute to 50%). Total charging time is then 49 - 64 minutes. There are things, of course, that can change that. Driving fast, headwinds and, the one that always surprises me in its impact, rain. Besides that charging stations are where they are - not likely to be spaced as I have assumed in these calculations. You must be prepared to adjust for these things in real time. Many people find this aspect of driving a BEV part of the fun. If you do not and/or if you find as much as an hour or even somewhat more nettlesome on a trip of this length then don't get a BEV.

As always I suggest that you go to A Better Route Planner and put your actual route into it. You can try various options and it will accordingly recommend routes and stops to optimize your time.

Thank you, ajdelange, for such a great reply. If chargers were along my route and spaced as you describe that would likely work. An extra hour on a 1200 mile trip would work. But, an extra 2-4 hours to get to chargers and charge wouldn't.

But, (and it has been over a year since I checked) my most direct route is mostly 2 lane highways across Texas and into Colorado with very small towns and very little few miles on larger roads. There were very few chargers. Hopefully, this will change!! We didn't go this year and I didn't check - maybe, I'm wrong and it did change - just unlikely, as most towns along the trip don't rate a place to eat, most don't have a hotel, and many don't have anyplace that is open (not even a gas station) on the first 2/3rd of the trip!

Others mentioned dual charges for the CT at some stations - but, with all the people saying range doesn't matter past 300-400 miles I don't see those being installed. The last video I watched yesterday was regarding a permit filed in Cali for a new charging location with designated CT stalls.... The CT stalls were larger - but, had the exact same chargers as the other stalls (250).

As long as EV owners campaign that more range or more/faster charging isn't needed then it most likely won't happen. This is the biggest obstruction to the CT being seen as a serious construction and/or hot shot type work vehicle. If the range can eventually be pushed to 700 miles I think almost all of those concerns will fade away.

I'm still looking forward to my CT. I can't afford the tri-motor. It would be nice if Tesla offered a dual motor with the larger battery pack!

 

[shaneaus]

I just checked the "abetterroute planner" website.

The best time with a tri-motor and the weight of my two sons/gear was 17hrs. That was with a Tri-motor. Almost an extra hour in driving (to get to a charger) and an extra 3 hrs to charge.

With a dual motor I couldn't make the drive through Lubbock, TX and it added almost 2 hrs of drive time and 3hrs 40 minutes of charger time...

 

[Luke42]

shaneaus,

It sounds like you're telling the community here that the Cybertruck isn't a good fit for your perceived needs.

That's OK!

The Cybertruck doesn't have to be all things to all people in order to be a success. It doesn't have to be a perfect fit for your use-case in order to be a perfect fit for my use-case.

If you would be happier with your existing vehicle, by all means keep your existing vehicle!

An option that a lot of EV owners have chosen is to drive a short-range EV for daily driving, and then to maintain an older ICE vehicle for road trips. If you really want a Cybertruck (or another Tesla) but can't make it work for your road-trips, this may be optimal for you.

If the Cybertruck isn't a good fit for your needs, that's just fine. There are lots of pickup truck use cases that the CT doesn't cover, and that's OK -- by covering 90% of popular use-cases, Tesla is going to save a lot of gasoline and sell a lot of trucks.

If you would be happier with your existing vehicle, by all means keep your existing vehicle!

 

[ajdelange]

Others mentioned dual charges for the CT at some stations - but, with all the people saying range doesn't matter past 300-400 miles I don't see those being installed. The last video I watched yesterday was regarding a permit filed in Cali for a new charging location with designated CT stalls.... The CT stalls were larger - but, had the exact same chargers as the other stalls (250).

Elon Musk, and others, have said that 400 mi is enough range and it is for most people most of the time. The 500 mile range of the CT is there because it has a big battery and it has a big battery because if you want to tow anything the 500 mi range is really 250 or less. The third motor is there for towing too. More recently the 500 mile range is needed to match the range of a competitor's vehicle (Lucid).

The CT needs fast charging not, as everyone thinks because it has a big battery but because each mile it travels consumes nearly half a kWh of energy so that it takes a slower charger longer to replenish a mile's worth of charge. People have assumed that the CT battery "pack" will be two smaller packs connected in parallel. From this it is clear that the packs could be isolated for charging with each connected to its own charger and port (very similar to the ones in the current production cars) and as faster charging is needed and as evidently this is the approach being taken with the Semi it is not unreasonable to think that the CT may use this dual port architecture. In fact it seems almost as if they would have to do this as competitors are offering faster charging than Tesla currently is and short of replacing the entire SC network with 800V chargers this is the only way I can think of to get more than 250 kW. But where to charge such a vehicle? Right now it would have to be at one of the stations where Tesla charges its experimental Semi's wherever they may be. Or I guess it could be done anywhere there is a pair of stalls free which, if V2 would have to be unpaired, using some sort of extension cord.

The announcement of the new charging station in California with the "CT stalls" is most interesting in that if you count the number of stalls and the number of chargers to be installed there is a mismatch - at least one extra. Is one of these stalls to be equipped with two?

In any case it will be some time before every Super Charger will have one or more double stalls (if ever) and before there is a plethora of Semi charging stations to which CT owners will have access.

 

[Crissa]

You're looking at the map as it is now.

You're not getting an electric truck for two years. Two years ago was the first year there were Superchargers on hwy 101. By the time you get your truck, the number of v3 superchargers will have almost doubled.

And no, shaneaus, you're asserting things I did not say or do.

Are you saying that you drive for sixteen hours and don't eat? Don't pee? Because that is what you're saying. And then you say you don't have time or money... Do you even know what it costs to add a thousand miles plus gas to your vehicle?

I don't think you read my posts at all. I don't 'dilly dally' when I drive. But I am honest about how much time those gas and bio stops take.

Five minutes for every hour won't kill your through time.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

I'm pretty sure I already shared it in this thread, but my favorite road-trip is up the Redwood Highway. I start in the afternoon in the south bay, and get north of the city before sundown. I drive all night into Oregon. I shift the take off time so what town my spouse wakes in changes each time. I grew up out there so it's all gravy to me.

I have trouble sleeping, so long drives are no problem to me. They're easier than social situations, driving is all about solving a set repeating problem. Aka 'flow'. My spouse sleeps when we're on the freeway, and can take sections that bore me.

I love driving at night. No traffic, it's quiet, and come morning we can get pancakes at some little local place and start a new day.

The thing is, the new Teslsa ranges can make the same hops we do in our car. And even so, we still stop to pee without filling up. Going up I-5 will be additional two required stops for the car. But to be honest, on average, we end up taking two more stops to pee, eat, or grab something from the back. If I'm the only one awake, I can't change around the music safely without stopping anyhow.

And I've done the math: For our 31mpg car, a first-class ticket flight to Portland (which if we take the coast isn't as fun, but much faster) produces the same carbon and costs between equal to to three times as much. If I'm going alone, it makes no sense to drive, since the car produces twice the carbon, takes four times as long, and often isn't cheaper!

Total cost of driving a thousand miles isn't just gas and a fifth of an oil change. It's an eight of new brakes. A thirtieth of new tires. A twelfth of new air filters. A sixtieth of a major inspection. And just very slightly raises our insurance.

A Tesla won't have most of those, but it will be time moving it closer to needing new tires and inspections and new flash chips and ever so very tiniest closer to a new battery. And the insurance definitely. So it'll just be the time.

Enjoy the drive. Drive safely. If you were in a rush, you'd have flown.

-Crissa

PS Yes, the Pacific coast has pretty dense superchargers now. But that's how all the highways will be in a couple years.

 

[ricinro]

Perhaps Tesla will offer a towable battery pack or a trailer with battery options. It could even be something you rent for those once a year trips.

You could pay for each day and kwh used.

 

[shaneaus]

I'm pretty sure I already shared it in this thread, but my favorite road-trip is up the Redwood Highway. I start in the afternoon in the south bay, and get north of the city before sundown. I drive all night into Oregon. I shift the take off time so what town my spouse wakes in changes each time. I grew up out there so it's all gravy to me.

I have trouble sleeping, so long drives are no problem to me. They're easier than social situations, driving is all about solving a set repeating problem. Aka 'flow'. My spouse sleeps when we're on the freeway, and can take sections that bore me.

I love driving at night. No traffic, it's quiet, and come morning we can get pancakes at some little local place and start a new day.

The thing is, the new Teslsa ranges can make the same hops we do in our car. And even so, we still stop to pee without filling up. Going up I-5 will be additional two required stops for the car. But to be honest, on average, we end up taking two more stops to pee, eat, or grab something from the back. If I'm the only one awake, I can't change around the music safely without stopping anyhow.

And I've done the math: For our 31mpg car, a first-class ticket flight to Portland (which if we take the coast isn't as fun, but much faster) produces the same carbon and costs between equal to to three times as much. If I'm going alone, it makes no sense to drive, since the car produces twice the carbon, takes four times as long, and often isn't cheaper!

Total cost of driving a thousand miles isn't just gas and a fifth of an oil change. It's an eight of new brakes. A thirtieth of new tires. A twelfth of new air filters. A sixtieth of a major inspection. And just very slightly raises our insurance.

A Tesla won't have most of those, but it will be time moving it closer to needing new tires and inspections and new flash chips and ever so very tiniest closer to a new battery. And the insurance definitely. So it'll just be the time.

Enjoy the drive. Drive safely. If you were in a rush, you'd have flown.

-Crissa

PS Yes, the Pacific coast has pretty dense superchargers now. But that's how all the highways will be in a couple years.

You make a lot of assumptions and don't read /assimilate my responses. Please just stop responding to me. The exchanges you and I are having are pointless. Literally, I feel like I'm talking to a message repeater with an agenda. Makes me wonder if you aren't getting paid to come into the forum to promote the same message over and over again. That's fine. But, I have no more interest in a discussion with you on this topic. So, if I comment here again please just know that my comment isn't directed at you. I'm, seriously, not intending to be rude or disrespectful - on the contrary, I'm going to be more respectful of both your time and mine. Best regards.