New Battery Range & Pack Architecture [Announced at Battery Day]

[MEDICALJMP]

Frank, I’m like you in the types of trips I take, time off, etc. There are challenges to BEV right now. Charging stations are not as prevalent as gas stations, either. However, I think the Cybertruck has so much promise and we are at a cusp where the world is changing to an EV revolution. I’ve done enough research where I have little doubt the CT will work for me. And a good number of my trips are where charging stations are sparse.

I don’t know if you have a reservation now or where you are in the reservation line, but you likely have a few years to follow the changes and progression of Cybertruck and battery tech. You don’t have to pull the trigger yet. This is a great forum of people experienced in EV with real world experience. There are a lot of people who not only own the vehicles but work in the related fields that give insights I haven’t found elsewhere.

Best thing is you have time to explore options.

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[Frank W]

Thanks for your insight and perhaps I wasn’t communicating effectively. I am all in on a tri-motor and am about 126k in line. Originally ordered dual but then 2 days passed and I changed to the tri-motor. I didn’t see the option to manage the order so canceled the dual and put in a new one. I apologize to everyone if I came across wrong with my comment.

 

[ajdelange]

There are challenges to BEV right now.

I've been driving an MX for almost 2 years now and I cannot really agree with that statement. While I know that there are places in the US and Canada where it isn't quite as easy as with petrol those places are not where I drive except when I am in the mind frame of "Let's go exploring in the Tesla in this place where there are no SuperChargers." with the specific intention of confronting those challenges. We had, for example, planned to go to the Fogo Island Inn in Newfoundland because it has a Tesla destination charger but there are AFAIK no Level 3 chargers of any kind on the whole island of Newfoundland at this time. COVID put an end to that plan but it looks from PlugShare as if by the time next summer rolls around there will be several Level 3 along the TCH. So that challenge will be gone.

Charging stations are not as prevalent as gas stations, either.

In more normal travel we really see no difference in our electric travels relative to what we did with petrol other than having at all times an idea of where we will be charging next rather than just cruising along till the light comes on and then looking for gas. But the attitude is always "Let's go and see". Never "We must be there at 13:47:05 and so you can have a 47 second pee break at milepost 137." If I had the latter mindset my feelings might be quite different.

I’ve done enough research where I have little doubt the CT will work for me. And a good number of my trips are where charging stations are sparse.

I haven't, of course, researched your particular situation and requirements but I nevertheless have little doubt that you will be extremely pleased. This is based on driving Teslas with 294 and 351 mi EPA ranges including trips to places where chargers are sparse (no Tesla chargers at all). 500 miles just seems like manna from heaven.

Best thing is you have time to explore options.

ABRP

 

[FutureBoy]

Besides that charging stations are where they are - not likely to be spaced as I have assumed in these calculations. You must be prepared to adjust for these things in real time. Many people find this aspect of driving a BEV part of the fun. If you do not and/or if you find as much as an hour or even somewhat more nettlesome on a trip of this length then don't get a BEV.

This is one aspect that is currently different between ICE and BEV. Unless you are driving in areas well populated with chargers, you need to pre-plan where you will charge on long trips. For ICE vehicles you can mostly just count on gas being available almost anywhere.

As an adult, I can work with that. If I’m in a hurry it will mean that I take bio-breaks when the CT needs a break. One issue though is that I have small kids. Small kids are not exactly able to self time their bio-breaks. So while we may have just stopped 15 miles ago, and daddy explicitly asked who needed to pee, and the kids were specifically taken into the restroom to pee, we will now need to make another quick stop.

This is just the way it is with little ones. And these stops will almost certainly be in entirely different locations than when the CT is ready for a break. So you just have to accept that.

Over time the kids will grow to have more control, foresight, and social planning. And over time there will come to be more end more chargers so the CT will become more flexible.

But currently I see somewhat of a conflict between where the vehicle needs a break and where the passengers need a break.

 

[shaneaus]

Sounds like you are talking yourself out of the CT like others that seem to think that they have no flexibility in the routine. I definitely understand how precious time off can be and wanting to make the most of the trip but slowing down and making it more of a fun trip than a hectic one can be rewarding. Lots of times traveling at night I have run into construction zones where traffic can either be slowed down drastically or even stopped for several minutes. Hard driving catches up to you and you can feel like a zombie driving on and on while your boys sleep. I am assuming that they are younger and you are not taking turns driving. The CT may not be the best option for everyone but it sure will be safer than what we are currently driving I believe. I am looking forward to getting a vehicle that can provide more awareness of what is going on around me such as a deer/pronghorn (TX) crossing the road right in front of the vehicle.

Accidents happen.
Elon Musk is Glad that Tesla Driver is Okay After Horrific Crash— Fan will buy Model 3 Again After Walking Away Unharmed!
https://apple.news/APf8roDy3S-CYC8EEY1r4YA

I don't think you read my post.. Yes, we switch off drivers every six hours...

And, no I'm not "talking myself out of a CT! Why do so many read things into a comment that aren't there?

The context of the discussion that was being has was that long range want really needed for an EV. This is a misconception by many who don't tow trailers, haul heavy v loads, or take long road trips ( maybe, they can afford to fly their family at 3x the cost, or, have lots of vacation days to travel?).

Most likely, when I go on a long trip it is town I'll have to trade trucks with a friend. He gets a CT for a week and I use his ICE truck for the trip. But, it is sad that needs to be done.

 

[shaneaus]

There is simply no way to slice it in which charging a BEV does not take more time than filling up with petrol. On a 900 mile trip you would typically charge to 95% at home before departure and then drive down to 10% meaning, if all goes well and you maintian EPA rating like speed, 85% of 500 miles is 425 miles. At that point you would charge to 70% which would take you 27 - 37 minutes depending on the severity of the charger's taper. You would then drive down to 10% again giving you 60% of 500 miles or 300 miles. You would now be at 10% and 725 miles from home with 200 miles to go so you would charge for a second time to 60% which would take 22 to 27 minutes. It's 5 miles per percent so the remainder of the trip would require 40% and you would arrive at the destination with 20% reserve so you could charge to only 50% for 10% reserve and save 5 - 7 minutes (17 - 20 minute to 50%). Total charging time is then 49 - 64 minutes. There are things, of course, that can change that. Driving fast, headwinds and, the one that always surprises me in its impact, rain. Besides that charging stations are where they are - not likely to be spaced as I have assumed in these calculations. You must be prepared to adjust for these things in real time. Many people find this aspect of driving a BEV part of the fun. If you do not and/or if you find as much as an hour or even somewhat more nettlesome on a trip of this length then don't get a BEV.

As always I suggest that you go to A Better Route Planner and put your actual route into it. You can try various options and it will accordingly recommend routes and stops to optimize your time.

Thank you for the advice. I'm aware and have used that web site before. But, your more detailed description if charge times was great.

What you delineated in your comment is why I'm excited about the CT.

However, in the context of the discussion that was being had people mentioned that long range battery was not important. IMHO these are people who do not tow/haul heavy loads or go on really long road trips.

Your example while great for a shorter trip doesn't alleviate concerns regarding a 1200 mile+ trip both ways that must be done in one half of a Christmas school break and still leave enough time in the middle for five days of snowboarding! LOL!

 

[shaneaus]

What I think would be a great option - especially, with these new batteries! - is that Tesla makes an auxiliary battery pack that could be managed / moved by two people. It could be placed into the back of the CT when needed, connect through a special port (that has a dual liquid line and an electrical line). This is something that could either be purchased outright or rented from a Tesla shop (I'm in Austin so there is one about 15 minutes from my house). It could be used when towing or for long trips and taken out when unneeded.

They could be made so they could be daisy chained together. So, for people who needed to use their truck to tow heavy loads for a business they could get 3-4 I of them and just use the number they need for the trip. Also, really easy to recycle when they eventually go bad.

 

[ajdelange]

This is one aspect that is currently different between ICE and BEV. Unless you are driving in areas well populated with chargers, you need to pre-plan where you will charge on long trips.

Referring again to my personal experiences driving these cars I would rephrase that as "Unless you are driving in areas that are sparsely populated with chargers you do not need to pre-plan where you will charge on long trips."

You do not list a BEV in your bio squib so I assume that you do not operate a BEV as a matter of course. If that assumption is correct I am aware that I can post that last paragraph every day in every thread and you will not believe me. It is perfectly natural to obsess over range and charging when contemplating switching over to a BEV or in anticipation of delivery of one you have ordered. I spent hours on ABRP planning and replanning our biannual migration. I finally made this laminated card which is in the car to this day.

For ICE vehicles you can mostly just count on gas being available almost anywhere.

The card lists the charging opportunities along the route we like to take. There are others but these are the ones that are on or just off the major roads we drive. When using the card you assess your fuel condition and decide, for example, if you should push on for Kingston or get off at Newburg to be on the safe side. After doing this a few times it dawned on me that this is exactly what I would do when driving the ICE vehicles in the days before the BEVs - look at the gas gauge and decide whether I could make it to the Malden rest stop (NY thruway) or stop at Platteskill (they are 38 mi apart) to be safe. I did not take into consideration that there was a gas station off every exit in between. These were the places I had learned were convenient to refuel and that's where I refueled on every trip.

Thus rather than pre-planning every trip in a BEV you need to acquaint yourself with the charging opportunities in the area into which you plan to drive. Obviously if it is a trip you make frequently you will soon do that. Instead of knowing where you like to stop for gas on the way to the beach you will learn where you like to charge. Your decision as to which of these stops you will make will be determined on the trip, just as it was with petrol stops in the past.

As an adult, I can work with that. If I’m in a hurry it will mean that I take bio-breaks when the CT needs a break.

Synchronizing P's and Q's (Q is the engineer's symbol for charge) becomes an issue now that vehicle range is greater than bladder range. We used to have to stop to charge more frequently giving more bio break opportunities. Now you almost need to pick where you will take on Q more by the opportunities it provides for P's. Many charging stations are adjacent to restaurants or in travel plazas on freeways with restrooms. Many of the others have bushes.

 

[FutureBoy]

This is one aspect that is currently different between ICE and BEV. Unless you are driving in areas well populated with chargers, you need to pre-plan where you will charge on long trips.

Referring again to my personal experiences driving these cars I would rephrase that as "Unless you are driving in areas that are sparsely populated with chargers you do not need to pre-plan where you will charge on long trips."

Potato, potato. I think we are saying the same thing here but from a different viewpoint.

Personally, I think that in the US, short of some off freeway areas between the coasts, everywhere basically has enough charging options to qualify as well populated with chargers. You may have to specifically go to them but the resources are available to do that without much effort. This is the world that current BEV's are working in. And in this world, you are correct that you basically don't need to pre-plan for chargers.

I see the CT as being able to open up whole new worlds of driving. Things like the TransAmerica Trail, Fire Tower Lookout Camping, visiting the Grand Canyon Point Sublime, or Overlanding the Enchanted Rockies in New Mexico. In these cases, there are basically 0 chargers anywhere around the trail. In fact, those driving ICE vehicles would even need to plan for access to liquid fuel. Currently, there are no BEVs that have access to this world so there really isn't anyone with valid BEV experience here.

I'm not first in line though for my CT so I look forward to seeing how others experience this world before I take delivery.

You do not list a BEV in your bio squib so I assume that you do not operate a BEV as a matter of course. If that assumption is correct I am aware that I can post that last paragraph every day in every thread and you will not believe me. It is perfectly natural to obsess over range and charging when contemplating switching over to a BEV or in anticipation of delivery of one you have ordered. I spent hours on ABRP planning and replanning our biannual migration. I finally made this laminated card which is in the car to this day.

You are correct that I do not yet have personal experience with BEV's. However, they have been a long time interest and I have been listening to those with experience for a long time. For a while, I was even dating someone who's father drove the GM EV1 daily and I got to experience that directly and talked to him about his experience at length.

Interestingly, I think that by posting your laminated card you exactly demonstrate the planning involved in BEV driving between chargers. It has probably been over 80 years since anyone in an ICE vehicle has made a preparatory list of available gas stations between their regular destinations.

As for the aligning of P's and Q's. I have no intention of being one of the drivers who is trying to enforce that alignment. I'm completely open to making another P stop just 15 minutes after the last one. Or having a road-side pullover and hold the kid dangling out the side of the vehicle while they complete the business required of the stop.

Growing up my mother's road trip pattern was to basically stop at all rest stops and any curious road-side attractions along the way. Road-side sometimes being roads that were well away from our shortest route road. And attractions being sometimes innocuous little places that are not on any tourist travel maps. And I have a history of making "side trips" of my own at great length. I have even on a whim driven 24 hrs each way on the interstate just to see a sunset. That trip was planned about 12 hours before the initial departure.

So in general, I think that the CT will actually be eminently capable of the vast majority of trips that I will ever take in it. At the same time though, I would be foolish to not pre-think through what the differences will be for the few trips that are not just easy out of the box.

 

[Aces-Truck]

It has probably been over 80 years since anyone in an ICE vehicle has made a preparatory list of available gas stations between their regular destinations.

Nope. When I drive from Seattle to Arizona, I plan out where I will gas up. I research enough to find an ARCO or Costco gas. It's not that difficult to do. And I'm only using Google Maps...

 

[FutureBoy]

Nope. When I drive from Seattle to Arizona, I plan out where I will gas up. I research enough to find an ARCO or Costco gas. It's not that difficult to do. And I'm only using Google Maps...

Clarification. I should have said “needed to”. LOL

Note though that you are not actually planning out gas stations. You are planning out Arco’s and Costco’s. If you didn’t plan those out, you wouldn’t be stuck anywhere. You would just have to pay a bit more for your gas.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

Many charging stations are adjacent to restaurants or in travel plazas on freeways with restrooms. Many of the others have bushes.

And there is something I haven’t discussed with the wife or daughters. Most women aren’t to keen about baring it in the bushes in the dark, much less broad daylight. Now add in that there may be others there. God help you if you are in need of that sudden, unplanned poop! At least even the most rinky-dink, out of nowhere filling station has flush facilities. I haven’t had to take a bush dump since I was in Africa.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

Shaneaus said:
Most likely, when I go on a long trip it is town I'll have to trade trucks with a friend. He gets a CT for a week and I use his ICE truck for the trip. But, it is sad that needs to be done.

I think you are selling the CT short right now. Wait until it is on the road before you make plans on who to trade trucks for the week. Get others real world reviews and battery updates.

 

[shaneaus]

Shaneaus said:
Most likely, when I go on a long trip it is town I'll have to trade trucks with a friend. He gets a CT for a week and I use his ICE truck for the trip. But, it is sad that needs to be done.

I think you are selling the CT short right now. Wait until it is on the road before you make plans on who to trade trucks for the week. Get others real world reviews and battery updates.

Keep in mind that when I say long trip that equals 1100+ miles and it will be FAST.

UNDER 1000 miles = not a long trip and no big deal. I've made the trip from Austin, TX to Memphis, TN and from Austin to St Louis several times in one day on a Harley. Doing that in a 500 mile range CT would be super easy and not even considered a "long trip" to me!

I'm not "seeking the CT short." I'm excited about the CT. But, in the earlier context of this conversation people were inferring that range wasn't a big deal. It IS a big deal for those who tow/haul loads and it take "long trips."

 

[MEDICALJMP]

Keep in mind that when I say long trip that equals 1100+ miles and it will be FAST.

UNDER 1000 miles = not a long trip and no big deal. I've made the trip from Austin, TX to Memphis, TN and from Austin to St Louis several times in one day on a Harley. Doing that in a 500 mile range CT would be super easy and not even considered a "long trip" to me!

I'm not "seeking the CT short." I'm excited about the CT. But, in the earlier context of this conversation people were inferring that range wasn't a big deal. It IS a big deal for those who tow/haul loads and it take "long trips."

I am one of those range is king advocates in multiple other threads you must not have seen. We’re same page, different paragraph.