Car designer Frank Stephenson's view on the Cybertruck

[Dids]

(First post here). I'm thinking that the issue of torsion, as well as compression, extension, flexion and shear, forced the use of exoskeleton. Then, they leaned into it. This is backwards from a car designer's perspective. A car designer can say unibody and let's make something. Tesla has to say, "How do we insure the battery pack doesn't take large quantities of force while carrying a load in the bed or towing???".

Traditional body on frame and unibody won't support the towing and carrying while protecting the battery pack from the torsion and other forces.

How does Tesla do that? exoskeleton, that's good because then they can skip paint and save billions...ok...what's the most sturdy way to do it? single high point triangle. The Tesla look continues inside given the engineering and design constraints . It's almost as if the CyberTruck had to look this way for it to even work.

Personally, the only thing that they could have gotten wrong, they did. That steering wheel, ugh...

I like your sentiments and I agree with you until you get to the steering wheel.... we don't know what steering the cybertruck is like, its possible that a yoke makes the most sense. What if its a pure steer by wire and speed sensitive steering system?

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[DarinCT]

...What if its a pure steer by wire and speed sensitive steering system?

Uhh... That would be uhhh... yeah no idea what that would be like. The current wheel screams go-kart to me and that's where my judgement comes from. A steer by wire system might require no hand over hand and after a (weird) learning curve might be more safe or enjoyable or ??? When you start at first principles and challenge thinking, sometimes the customer (me) will be at a loss for words

 

[Dids]

Uhh... That would be uhhh... yeah no idea what that would be like. The current wheel screams go-kart to me and that's where my judgement comes from. A steer by wire system might require no hand over hand and after a (weird) learning curve might be more safe or enjoyable or ??? When you start at first principles and challenge thinking, sometimes the customer (me) will be at a loss for words

It would be kind of like learning to drive with just the "gas" pedal.

 

[Cybercarlson]

What if its a pure steer by wire and speed sensitive steering system?

Hi Les,
you suggestion is spot on....
Steer by wire. Like a smale plane (Cesna) you do not have to "spin the wheel", just smale turns.

I would like that, even if "an old dog has to learn a new trick". ?

Just one big BUT:

In most countrys a physical conection between "Steering device and wheels " is still mandatory.
Power steering is just an assist.....

I hope TESLA can break through this wall of "it was allways so".
Steering might be harder to tackle than video side view mirrows.........

 

[Dids]

Hi Les,
you suggestion is spot on....
Steer by wire. Like a smale plane (Cesna) you do not have to "spin the wheel", just smale turns.

I would like that, even if "an old dog has to learn a new trick". ?

Just one big BUT:

In most countrys a physical conection between "Steering device and wheels " is still mandatory.
Power steering is just an assist.....

I hope TESLA can break through this wall of "it was allways so".
Steering might be harder to tackle than video side view mirrows.........

"Cybertruck is USA specification only. Global specification will be developed later." But besides that point there have been other cars... Infinity Q50 is one although they retro fitted to get rid of it. Also any vehicle with all wheel steering would break that rule, I don't know for a fact that linkage doesn't run to the back wheels but I doubt it. And I'm not sure its an actual rule anywhere.... they usually make laws to prevent something that exists. What other option besides mechanical linkage exists that they where outlawing?

 

[Dids]

Hi Les,
you suggestion is spot on....
Steer by wire. Like a smale plane (Cesna) you do not have to "spin the wheel", just smale turns.

I would like that, even if "an old dog has to learn a new trick". ?

Just one big BUT:

In most countrys a physical conection between "Steering device and wheels " is still mandatory.
Power steering is just an assist.....

I hope TESLA can break through this wall of "it was allways so".
Steering might be harder to tackle than video side view mirrows.........

"Cybertruck is USA specification only. Global specification will be developed later." But besides that point there have been other cars... Infinity Q50 is one although they retro fitted to get rid of it. Also any vehicle with all wheel steering would break that rule, I don't know for a fact that linkage doesn't run to the back wheels but I doubt it. And I'm not sure its an actual rule anywhere.... they usually make laws to prevent something that exists. What other option besides mechanical linkage exists that they where outlawing? I guess its possible someone tried hydrostatic steering and i can imagine that it was a failure.

 

[Cybercarlson]

I guess its possible someone tried hydrostatic steering and i can imagine that it was a failure.

You have a good point there Les.

But as far as I know this is only used with slower moving vehicles, e.g. earth moving equippment that is (with some extras like light, etc.) allowed on public roads.

For all wheel steering, the front axel is still steered with mechanical fail back.

Basically if you are allowed to tow a disabled vehicle, it has to have mechanical steering, not nessesary power steering....

But I am very bias here.
Ya'll should know that Germany is the land of the free (in EU) when it comes to privatly towing broken vehicels on public roads (even the Autobahn).
This is very liberaly regulated in Germany. The person in the towed vehicle does not even have to have a drivers licence..... and you can use a simple rope!
Other EU countrys have outlawed privat towing, for safety reasons....

btw. I think today every car is developed for not just one market....... just for production scaleability.
Get used to not living in the biggest market, allways.

Of course PickUps are something different, LOL. ???
And the Cybertruck is not a possible base for a VAN..... ?

Les I believe we could have a great discussion, live and with a beer/drink at hand.
I enjoy and learn so much from your posts.
If it wheren't for the big distance....in location.?

 

[Dids]

You have a good point there Les.

But as far as I know this is only used with slower moving vehicles, e.g. earth moving equippment that is (with some extras like light, etc.) allowed on public roads.

For all wheel steering, the front axel is still steered with mechanical fail back.

Basically if you are allowed to tow a disabled vehicle, it has to have mechanical steering, not nessesary power steering....

But I am very bias here.
Ya'll should know that Germany is the land of the free (in EU) when it comes to privatly towing broken vehicels on public roads (even the Autobahn).
This is very liberaly regulated in Germany. The person in the towed vehicle does not even have to have a drivers licence..... and you can use a simple rope!
Other EU countrys have outlawed privat towing, for safety reasons....

btw. I think today every car is developed for not just one market....... just for production scaleability.
Get used to not living in the biggest market, allways.

Of course PickUps are something different, LOL. ???
And the Cybertruck is not a possible base for a VAN..... ?

Les I believe we could have a great discussion, live and with a beer/drink at hand.
I enjoy and learn so much from your posts.
If it wheren't for the big distance....in location.?

Ich kann Deutsch, tatsächlich ist es meine Muttersprache.

 

[Cybercarlson]

Na dann..... lade ich Dich ein.
Nach Corona. Lets meet.

 

[Crissa]

The all wheel steering doesn't break the rule because that's a power assist, the steering wheel still has a physical link to the front wheels. Same for speed-sensitivity: you can physically gear the wheel up and down.

It's a pain unless the law changes. Tho I think I'd prefer physical linkage for the time being.

-Crissa

 

[GuitarLunatic]

I suggest you don't get one and fall behind the times. Your video just some how irritated me. And I don't need any one tiring to change my mind about any thing.

Were you telling ME not to get a Cybertruck because I posted the guy's video, or were you telling the designer not to get one? LOL

Anyway, besides the jerky stuff like that there's some great discussion here. I just watched Cybertruck Truck Guy's response video and loved it. Really did a great job showing why the CT is going to become iconic and why so many people are going to love it.

 

[DarinCT]

Were you telling ME not to get a Cybertruck because I posted the guy's video, or were you telling the designer not to get one? LOL

Anyway, besides the jerky stuff like that there's some great discussion here. I just watched Cybertruck Truck Guy's response video and loved it. Really did a great job showing why the CT is going to become iconic and why so many people are going to love it.

Here's the aforementioned CyberTruck Truck Guy's video . Thanks @GuitarLunatic for the reference because YT probably wouldn't have recommended it. I like the points and the biting humor.

 

[iplace]

EV indusry, especially Tesla created is like Smart phone industry Apple iPhone created. It's never existed before. I see my model 3 or comming Cybertruck as I see my new iPhones or new computer, new technology. I don't think a person designed Nokia or Motorola phones can't judge current smart phones how they are good or bad as "Phone".

 

[Geo]

Firstly lets define a couple of benchmarks ,and one that is the issue that is at the heart of Frank’s criticism.

The Cybertruck's Success will be defined by Sales Demand.
The Designers focus is Aesthetics, after desired minimum function is included. ie. Is it Ugly or Not.
Will it Date quickly.

Form firstly and definitely follows function, but there are many examples and reasons which change the orientation around, and taken to the ends of the argument, it becomes a philosophical question.

The Cybertruck is exceedingly successful at its function.

But absolutely designers have a big role to play, make huge difference in what final form looks like, in achieving a number of objectives. Including aesthetically pleasing, aesthetically attractive, aesthetically interesting.

Case in point , is the 2021, F150 giving customers 15 options for a front Grille !

The Cybertruck will be a success because it will sell ! Big demand exists for it. Period.
Thats not in question.

But apparently some peoples response here is laughably, I don’t care how ugly it is !!

The question of how ugly or not it is, and specifically will it date quickly, is the focus of Franks’s criticism,

( and it is an absolutely a valid consideration / concern )

And by extension will that have a bearing on its demand. Meaning its success, not just now, but into the future.

I would suggest No. Its cost effective utility value is so great, that the marks it loses for being plain and simple, in my opinion is not sufficient.

But I definitely don’t think its ugly, ( but have many friends who think its horrific )
although I can see how it could be better,
if it wasn’t for that two edged sword that is the 3mm thick S/S panels.

It’s so exceedingly successful at it function, and so cost effective, that it will continue to sell in sufficient demand.

What I would love to see is, how would Frank design it, if he ignored the exoskeleton reality, and assumed 0.7mm mild steel panels ? (putting aside for the minute, that its the exoskeleton intrinsically that gives the Cybertruck its phenomenal utility value.)

Then take that design, and show me how much of it he could keep, and what changes would have to be made, given it would be, not negotiable, made from 3mm thick cold rolled stainless Steel.
( maybe the doors, bonnet, side windows could be thinner)

Now that would be intriguing to see.

Perhaps 10 years from now there's 2 types of Cybertruck, one that has the cheapest form to make, and one that's more expensive, but far more visually attractive and interesting.
Just like Franks perfect analogy about how 1st generation Playstation was a revelation and a huge success, but later generations by comparison proved the first generation was excellent in its scope but quite primitive in its execution.
( But no less entitled to its accolades at the time of release)

If any one understands this its Elon, who's big on iterations, iterations, iterations, evolved improvements.
Hence why we are already awaiting the many small improvements he's announced we'll see !
Any day now !

 

[KrodEKid]

I like to tell people I have a good sense of fashion. Plaid flannel has never been out of fashion and its comfortable and durable. I don't care if it makes somebody think I may or may not be in touch with nature when I wear it.

This guy states his professionalism in design is a responsibility to inspire ecogical thinking? By designing cars too expensive and impractical to build for mas market?

I get that he has experience designing successful cars. But his ability to communicate his dislike of the CT design doesn't hold water.

I have no experience as a designer, but I'm interested in why he never mentioned Franz by name (just Elon) and why he never mentioned brutalism as a design language. His video did nothing to educate; it seemed more like he wanted to indoctrinate.

He is certainly entitled to an opinion to dislike the CT, but it seems shallow to say it doesn't look like nature enough to inspire peaceful, happy and ecological thinking. I know I get a happy feeling when I look at pictures of the CT ? ? Once I get my hands on the CT, I know I'll be spending more time enjoying nature!

Todd the CTTG, evaluated his video fairly and had me shaking my head yes with every point. Thank you Todd.