Winching...

[Ehninger1212]

any ideas if the same front recovery winch could be used somehow to pull stuff up the tailgate ramp? Maybe through rerouting the cable/synthetic rope or something? or would a separate winch be nescesary?

Sure you could, but i think it would be more cost efficient to run power and ground front and rear. Then you just have a mount which allows you to easily move the winch. People often do this and mount the winch to a front or rear hitch receiver. It would be pretty easy to have some sort of pad mounted in the bed which you could attach the winch to then quick connect power and ground, Same for the front bumper.

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[TyPope]

Okay... I have a question for the group. The CT will have torque vectoring, right? I've been stuck in the mud a few times (once with a '65 Mustang. A pond was involved. Long story). Anyway, I was thinking about winches because, well, this is a Forum about Winching. I was also thinking how Tesla seems to answer problems with unconventional thinking. While thinking along the "Tesla wouldn't do something so pedestrian as hanging a dumb looking cable reel off the front of their car though I see Jeeps doing this all the time though to be fair, they have the aerodynamics of a brick (but not a smooth brick).

Anyway, while thinking of other ways to get some kind of winch power without needing to do something like cut holes or move heavy motors around, I thought "Why not just get rid of the motor altogether?" What if, and bear with me here because I can't draw it up so I'll try to explain. You have a flat belt with a wide, flat hook on one end that happens to match your tire tread (Yes, this would only work for the stock tires) that you could set on the ground against a tire and then hit "rescue mode, right rear" or whatever tire you are going to use to pull yourself with. Then, the tire would slowly rotate while the belt's "hook" slips in between the treads and locks in place. Maybe it has small pokies to dig into the side of the tread blocks a little. Then, basically backing up would pull the vehicle along the belt as it winds up. The other end of the belt becomes like a rope that you can connect to another vehicle or a tree. I know the first thing that comes to mind is "You could easily break a bead there" or "You could snap that tread block right off the tire" But, the hook is the width of the tire and is shaped to connect to several blocks while going across. Maybe the "rescue" mode limits the torque that motor puts out so you don't have that concern so much. Just a thought.

 

[Timoj]

Recovery boards? I would love to see tyre manufacturer specific recovery boards.

A couple of manufacturers have webbing “rope ladders” they are tied to the wheel like putting on snow chains. They only work over very short distances.

The other way is to have a wheel mounted sheave/drum. The idea is to place the sheave/drum on special bolts on a rear wheel put a few turns on it and run the line through a fairlead in the front or rear bumper and attach to a suitable anchor, then simply drive towards the anchor. No winch needed. It does limit you to self rescues though.... unless you’ve got a way of lifting a wheel....(air suspension and jack stand..... anyone? Anyone?)

I'm quite sure some clever engineer could incorporate a winch drum into a wheel with fold out fairleads to direct the line into the wheel rather than having the drum protrude from the wheel.

 

[Timoj]

I'm quite sure some clever engineer could incorporate a winch drum into a wheel with fold out fairleads to direct the line into the wheel rather than having the drum protrude from the wheel.

And with one on each rear wheel and a strong enough fairlead in the bumper (and anchor point) it could literally pull itself up a vertical cliff.

 

[ldjessee]

any ideas if the same front recovery winch could be used somehow to pull stuff up the tailgate ramp? Maybe through rerouting the cable/synthetic rope or something? or would a separate winch be nescesary?

I think with the vault cover and that their is already power in the bed, just mounting a winch to the front of the bed (opposite the tailgate/ramp) would be the easier thing to do. Because the bed payload is 3,500 lbs and assume you are not dragging it straight up a rough cliff, then a smaller winch of say 3,500lbs or less even, should be enough to pull a load onboard.

 

[CyberCop]

If tesla does have a winch for the cyber truck it will definitely be an option as not every truck owner puts a winch on the front of his truck.
I for one would like to see it I would also like to see it somewhat hidden in the frunk as well.

it’s already been said that there will be rail systems in the bed of the cyber truck so attaching connecting points to hold a winch to allow it to pull things up into the bed would not be a problem, power is already there.

 

[akjames]

Winch mounts should be built in, front and rear. Put a plate over the opening for those who don't opt for it/them.

 

[jayrhacker]

Replacement bumper in the front with a 2" receiver tube. Get a winch that comes in a cradle. Wire both front and back of the truck. Pin the winch cradle in either front or back depending on the direction you need to be winched out. When done put the winch back in the Frunk. This solution keeps the winch out of the weather and doesn't change the front end very much. Also allows for both direction winching.

This is the setup I have on my truck right now, haven't had to winch off the back but I *can* which is nice.

 

[Luke42]

So, on an ALL ELECTRIC vehicle.. you don't expect an electric motor to drive the winch?

I'll say the unspoken part of this conversation out loud, so those who aren't familiar with the ICE off-road stack can follow along.

Existing winches take 12V DC power at high amperage (600+ cold-crank peak amps). The system is optimized for load-spikes, rather than for continuous operation, but it can deliver a lot of amps when required. This isn't ideal, but it works pretty well on a conventional ICE vehicle, because a system like this already exists to power the starter and because 4x4 spend most of their time not-stuck.

However, there's no reason to build a high-amperage 12V system into an EV -- Unless you want compatibility with existing aftermarket winches, lights, radios, and enormous car stereos. Tesla is willing to break convention, though (that's why they exist) so there's no reason to think they'll put this kind of 12V system in the car.

How you power a winch really is an open question.

If I were designing a winch system with no prior art, I'd probably use a 220V variable frequency AC motor and controller and optimize from there. However, that takes just as much engineering as a high-amperage 12V system -- AND breaks it compatibility with the existing aftermarket (which increases costs and decreases options).

What, if anything, will Tesla do here?

 

[Dids]

I'll say the unspoken part of this conversation out loud, so those who aren't familiar with the ICE off-road stack can follow along.

Existing winches take 12V DC power at high amperage (600+ cold-crank peak amps). The system is optimized for load-spikes, rather than for continuous operation, but it can deliver a lot of amps when required. This isn't ideal, but it works pretty well on a conventional ICE vehicle, because a system like this already exists to power the starter and because 4x4 spend most of their time not-stuck.

However, there's no reason to build a high-amperage 12V system into an EV -- Unless you want compatibility with existing aftermarket winches, lights, radios, and enormous car stereos. Tesla is willing to break convention, though (that's why they exist) so there's no reason to think they'll put this kind of 12V system in the car.

How you power a winch really is an open question.

If I were designing a winch system with no prior art, I'd probably use a 220V variable frequency AC motor and controller and optimize from there. However, that takes just as much engineering as a high-amperage 12V system -- AND breaks it compatibility with the existing aftermarket (which increases costs and decreases options).

What, if anything, will Tesla do here?

I vote for not 12v... backwards or any type of compatible isn't really a Tesla thing.

 

[Timoj]

If I were designing a winch system with no prior art, I'd probably use a 220V variable frequency AC motor and controller and optimize from there. However, that takes just as much engineering as a high-amperage 12V system -- AND breaks it compatibility with the existing aftermarket (which increases costs and decreases options).

What, if anything, will Tesla do here?

I vote for not 12v... backwards or any type of compatible isn't really a Tesla thing.

Rather than adding another motor to run the winch, I wonder if a power take off from the front and rear motors would add too much complexity? A clutched planetary gear?

 

[Crissa]

Isn't there a market for winches in shops and industrial settings that run on 240v?

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

No need to worry about a winch for Cybertruck.

Seriously, what kind of ultimate truck for off-roading and the Apocalypse would be without a winch? Winches also come in handy for a multitude of purposes besides off-roading.

There WILL BE a winch and it will be designed and built in-house by Tesla engineers and it will be an option.

BUT, it may not make it in the first production of Cybertruck.

 

[ajdelange]

What, if anything, will Tesla do here?

They will obviously use the same technology they use for the traction motors i.e. 3ø AC motor (induction or synchonous) connected to the high voltage battery through an H bridge but geared for the lower speed and higher torque required of a winch. Much simpler control algorithm of course.

 

[Billh]

With a gross vehicle weight estimated to be in the neighborhood of 8000 pounds, you’d need upwards of a 15,000 - 16,000 pound winch.

My other thoughts/concerns would be how to mount one on the front; would it be able to be mounted semi internally (not to mention be able to be wired), or would it have to be mounted in an external bumper like other conventional 4 x 4‘s.

The lack of hard data and specifications available at this point is testing my patience. ?

It would be nice to see Tesla design a light weight high efficient hydronic winch option with 12 strand Rope at 12,000 lb plus Capacity ..The hydronic or other fluid (Spacex style) build into the exoskeleton with a micro camera feed of the Rope spool and Direction of tow with safety stops etc.They certainly have the tools to do so. If they do it would likely be a device that would be the envy of the off road community.