Will Lucid come out with better battery and motor tech than Tesla?

[ajdelange]

Huh?

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[TruckElectric]

Huh?

What?

 

[ajdelange]

What I mean is I can't follow your non sequiturs. Are you implying that Rivian's scheme for fast charging their battery in their 400 V architecture is somehow unsafe? If that's the case what do you think is unsafe about it?

 

[TruckElectric]

What I mean is I can't follow your non sequiturs. Are you implying that Rivian's scheme for fast charging their battery in their 400 V architecture is somehow unsafe? If that's the case what do you think is unsafe about it?

I don't know about Rivian's fast charging but it must be comparable to Tesla's SC.

 

[TruckElectric]

What I mean is I can't follow your non sequiturs. Are you implying that Rivian's scheme for fast charging their battery in their 400 V architecture is somehow unsafe? If that's the case what do you think is unsafe about it?

Both Tesla and Rivian must use a similar inverter setup to allow for the fast charging, right?

 

[ajdelange]

It won’t be in the first trucks they sell AFAIK and may never actually be used but they have applied for a patent for a scheme in which two 400 V batteries are in parallel for normal 400 V operation of the truck but are switched to series connection for charging from a high power 800 V charger.

 

[TruckElectric]

It won’t be in the first trucks they sell AFAIK and may never actually be used but they have applied for a patent for a scheme in which two 400 V batteries are in parallel for normal 400 V operation of the truck but are switched to series connection for charging from a high power 800 V charger.

Ok, I remember you mentioned that earlier.

 

[ajdelange]

The vehicle on board charger isn’t involved in fast charging. Tesla V3 chargers just push more current.

 

[TruckElectric]

It won’t be in the first trucks they sell AFAIK and may never actually be used but they have applied for a patent for a scheme in which two 400 V batteries are in parallel for normal 400 V operation of the truck but are switched to series connection for charging from a high power 800 V charger.

The vehicle on board charger isn’t involved in fast charging. Tesla V3 chargers just push more current.

Ok, but doesn't the power electronics have to be setup for that? I did read where in Europe there was a glitch in the Tesla SC that allowed other EV's to charge for free using the Tesla SC. I think they got the glitch fixed though...,..,...

 

[Mini2nut]

I predict that the “glitch” was a planned distraction. Tesla is gauging non-Tesla usage on the SC network because you will see a future Supercharging partnership between Volkswagen Group and Tesla. Tesla is gathering data on Supercharger use to determine pricing when negotiating with VW in the near future.

I feel the purpose of the VW visit between Musk and Diess was exactly for this topic and why the two had a private 1 on 1 conversation inside of the ID3, outside of other executives earshot. Did Elon tour Wolfsburg and meet the executive team? Nope. Also, remember that Diess was recently demoted. I wouldn’t be surprised if Elon offers Diess a position as the head of Tesla European operations. He knows everyone in Europe and would be a perfect candidate.

 

[TruckElectric]

I doubt it. As is the case with Rivian they are heavily invested in 400 V motors, inverters and chargers at this point and it isn't that easy to overcome inertia. Going to an 800 V electrical system represents a tremendous investment in redesign. As is the case with Rivian, though, you can bet they are thinking about this.

The 2017 developmental model for Lucid was 400 V and 2+ years later they announced a 900 V

 

[TruckElectric]

I predict that the “glitch” was a planned distraction. Tesla is gauging non-Tesla usage on the SC network because you will see a future Supercharging partnership between Volkswagen Group and Tesla. Tesla is gathering data on Supercharger use to determine pricing when negotiating with VW in the near future.

I feel the purpose of the VW visit between Musk and Diess was exactly for this topic and why the two had a private 1 on 1 conversation inside of the ID3, outside of other executives earshot. Did Elon tour Wolfsburg and meet the executive team? Nope. Also, remember that Diess was recently demoted. I wouldn’t be surprised if Elon offers Diess a position as the head of Tesla European operations. He knows everyone in Europe and would be a perfect candidate.

Who is currently head of Europe operations for Tesla?

 

[Crissa]

DC fast charging can occur at all sorts of voltages. There's even a standard in CHAdeMO for 100 volts, but most of the implementations don't allow it.

The minimum for CCS is 200 volts, and right now the highest is 850.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

Ok, but doesn't the power electronics have to be setup for that?

Yes. This is a classic interface situation involving a hardware interface and a software/firmware one. The vehicle is ultimately in control during charging. In a Level 2 charge the charger is located in the car. In Level 3 it is external to it. But, rumor has it, in the early days at least, it was the same charger i.e. the cabinets at a Tesla SC were reported to be racks of M3 charger modules.

In either case and whatever is in the cabinets the external device, when plugged into a vehicle communicates with it over the small pins to determine that it is connected to a vehicle "authorized" to receive a charge. Authorized means a couple of things. One is that the vehicle is electrically compatible with the external electronics (properly grounded etc) and the other is that, given electrical compatibility, the vehicle has permission to get power from the external source e.g. by being recognized as a Tesla on the Tesla network and one that has not had charging disallowed because it has been wrecked, stolen etc. Once the vehicle is authorized handshaking with regard to how much power the vehicle wants and how much the external gear is prepared to supply takes place, at Level 2 the external contactor is closed and the vehicle internal charger takes the requisite amount of power from the mains while in Level 3 external rectifiers supply the requisite current to the vehicle. During the charge the vehicle continues to communicate with the external equipment commanding it, for example, to reduce charging current in order to "taper",

I did read where in Europe there was a glitch in the Tesla SC that allowed other EV's to charge for free using the Tesla SC. I think they got the glitch fixed though...,..,...

I'll bet there was a code fragment that looked like

...
enable = authorize(VIN)
enable = 1
...

intended to "stub out" authorization for testing that didn't get put back into normal form

enable = authorize(VIN)
//enable = 1

when the machines went to the field. This sort of mistake occurs all the time and is, obviously, very easily put right.