Production Cybertruck Size Reduced By 3% With a More Level Center Line and Lower Window Sills [Update: Interior Reduced 1.5%]

[CT4FP]

Just concerning this "choice" of reducing the overall size of the Cyber...
So the "first principles". Elon, explain how the change in the Cyber was done because the engineering team failed to follow first principles?
I wrongly surmised that all the reductions were done because a little dead space was found between parts and sections. But IF you are reducing cabin space then why?
The first set of dimensions were created using "First Principles." If they were not then why?
If the second set of dimensions for the interior space is correct concerning "first principles" then how did the engineers get it wrong originally?
I had faith that Elon would use "First Principles" to engineer all his products. And now this?
It is disconcerting to see "First Principles" ignored at any stage...or given up on?

Going with an exoskeleton versus a body-on-frame is a good example of first principles thinking. "How do we engineer a structure to handle our target payload and towing specs?"

Picking a length for the truck is more of a trade-off decision. "Do we want 3.5 inches more cabin space or do we want this to fit in more garages and be easier to drive in the city?"

My guess is they originally decided on more cabin space, thinking they'd be selling primarily to middle America and truck people, but then reservations blew up and it turns out that a lot more city folk were placing orders than expected. That shifted their thinking to "we don't want to lose sales if people realize it's too big for their garage." 20x20 is a common garage size in US but those are external dimensions, meaning original 19'4" CT wouldn't fit.

I can see losing that cabin space could be disconcerting for people with 24 foot garages or planning to park outside. The gain is with an increase in number of units sold, manufacturing cost per unit will be lower, meaning either lower price or better features & capabilities.

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[lukefrisbee]

Going with an exoskeleton versus a body-on-frame is a good example of first principles thinking. "How do we engineer a structure to handle our target payload and towing specs?"

Picking a length for the truck is more of a trade-off decision. "Do we want 3.5 inches more cabin space or do we want this to fit in more garages and be easier to drive in the city?"

My guess is they originally decided on more cabin space, thinking they'd be selling primarily to middle America and truck people, but then reservations blew up and it turns out that a lot more city folk were placing orders than expected. That shifted their thinking to "we don't want to lose sales if people realize it's too big for their garage." 20x20 is a common garage size in US but those are external dimensions, meaning original 19'4" CT wouldn't fit.

I can see losing that cabin space could be disconcerting for people with 24 foot garages or planning to park outside. The gain is with an increase in number of units sold, manufacturing cost per unit will be lower, meaning either lower price or better features & capabilities.

i get what you are saying, but first principles would identify what the interior cabin space should be and the exoskeleton would be built around that. And "fitting in a small garage" would not be on the same first principle level as the "correct size for occupants."
When word came out the Cyber was shortened I didn't expect vital areas to take the hit. Tesla has it worded so it seems that the lost interior space is going to negligible... the loss is talked in terms of the length of the vehicle, but in actuality (if this was an honest declaration by Tesla) they would talk of the percentage of loss within the cabin itself. If you took 3.5 inches out of the rear legroom you might as well be in the backseat of the Model Y..

 

[K Doc Brown 007]

i get what you are saying, but first principles would identify what the interior cabin space should be and the exoskeleton would be built around that. And "fitting in a small garage" would not be on the same first principle level as the "correct size for occupants."
When word came out the Cyber was shortened I didn't expect vital areas to take the hit. Tesla has it worded so it seems that the lost interior space is going to negligible... the loss is talked in terms of the length of the vehicle, but in actuality (if this was an honest declaration by Tesla) they would talk of the percentage of loss within the cabin itself. If you took 3.5 inches out of the rear legroom you might as well be in the backseat of the Model Y..

I think your not thinking big picture.... Musk is too smart... the 3.5 inches of cabin reduction is NOT 3.5 inches of rear leg room.... I’ll guarantee it.... rather it’ll be spread around through the cabin and dead spaces.... I’d guess 1 - 1.5” of rear leg room is compromised. Still leaving plenty of rear leg room unless your over 6’6”.... in which case I’d like to play some basketball with you ???

 

[lukefrisbee]

I think your not thinking big picture.... Musk is too smart... the 3.5 inches of cabin reduction is NOT 3.5 inches of rear leg room.... I’ll guarantee it.... rather it’ll be spread around through the cabin and dead spaces.... I’d guess 1 - 1.5” of rear leg room is compromised. Still leaving plenty of rear leg room unless your over 6’6”.... in which case I’d like to play some basketball with you ???

I played BB with some of the greats... and they had an official rule when guarding me.... you couldn't try to steal the ball unless I went inside the 3-point line. I am only 6'2". What was so strange was when I'd play in pick-up games they'd expect me to play at the rim because I was "so Tall." But since I played with quality players I couldn't function down low. I would get so anxious I would freeze-up.

 

[azjohn]

If you are worried the CT is too big for your garage.....Build a bigger garage!!

 

[CT4FP]

i get what you are saying, but first principles would identify what the interior cabin space should be and the exoskeleton would be built around that. And "fitting in a small garage" would not be on the same first principle level as the "correct size for occupants."
When word came out the Cyber was shortened I didn't expect vital areas to take the hit. Tesla has it worded so it seems that the lost interior space is going to negligible... the loss is talked in terms of the length of the vehicle, but in actuality (if this was an honest declaration by Tesla) they would talk of the percentage of loss within the cabin itself. If you took 3.5 inches out of the rear legroom you might as well be in the backseat of the Model Y..

OMG, I just realized you were being sarcastic. I was reading Baja 1000 thread where you said engineers should focus resources on a mass market vehicle not a niche off-roader and then the lightbulb came on.

The avg height/weight of US adult male is 5’9” and 198 lbs. I've fit four adults 5'10" to 6’4” and 200 to 270 lbs in my Model 3 (not comfortably but model Y is bigger & higher).

Designing an interior for 6 NBA players is a niche product and I think you're saying Tesla has ignored first principles and is arbitrarily copying the Ford SuperCrew cabin. For mass market, Tesla should design cabin no bigger than Model Y to save weight and increase range and payload.

 

[lukefrisbee]

OMG, I just realized you were being sarcastic. I was reading Baja 1000 thread where you said engineers should focus resources on a mass market vehicle not a niche off-roader and then the lightbulb came on.

The avg height/weight of US adult male is 5’9” and 198 lbs. I've fit four adults 5'10" to 6’4” and 200 to 270 lbs in my Model 3 (not comfortably but model Y is bigger & higher).

Designing an interior for 6 NBA players is a niche product and I think you're saying Tesla has ignored first principles and is arbitrarily copying the Ford SuperCrew cabin. For mass market, Tesla should design cabin no bigger than Model Y to save weight and increase range and payload.

So? You do realize they designed the Cyber, not me.
Ask them if they designed it the way they did originally. I had faith that they used "First Principles" when determining the interior dimensions of the cabin. And now they've significantly reduced those dimensions by 3.5 inches? So the percentage of the interior space "reduced" from the original "first Principles" was just so people with tiny garages can buy a now smaller Vehicle?
That does not sound like what Elon Prides himself on.
My only shred of hope is that the design team just screwed up and didn't take into account turning radius, but then why take so much from the interior passenger space?
OR, it seems like from what I read on here, the "Marketing team" decided more vehicles could be sold if they abandoned First Principles and made it smaller so more people would buy it. That sounds just like something Ford would do.

 

[lukefrisbee]

BUT.
I also believe that SOMEHOW I am never going to go, "Damn it! If it was just a little bit larger...."

 

[cybrtrk_maybe]

My personal thinking is that there are way too many distracted drivers and I would rather have it be the same size as a deuce and a half; That way when, not if, that distracted driver hits me I have the advantage.

 

[rr6013]

I think you got the 208 inch figure from me.
I was hoping for the "Goldilocks Cybertruck" ( Global 2nd version) to be, 208 inch long.

I think the - 3% means, 231.7 inch original length minus ~3% = approx. 224.7 inch new length.

In any case, Elon stated he's meeting with his engineering team next week, and "will post exact numbers soon".

Expect the vehicle break over angle needed a tuck. This beast was envisioned a straightline rocket. Once offroad its too wide, too long and too big to dance, rut and muck with the best of them. WAG... they've nip and tucked to bring it inline with other toys on the playground.

 

[Old Spice]

Expect the vehicle break over angle needed a tuck. This beast was envisioned a straightline rocket. Once offroad its too wide, too long and too big to dance, rut and muck with the best of them. WAG... they've nip and tucked to bring it inline with other toys on the playground.

That's a great point. I didn't consider that the nip tuck was done to help its off-roadability but would make sense. We know they want it to perform well as a high speed desert vehicle (Musk's Baja reference) but I'm hoping they focus on making it a good crawler too.

If they do, they'll do what Jeep and Ford haven't been able to do with their iconic Wrangler and Raptors, which is make a truck that can do both (high speed desert driving and slow offroad crawling) extremely well.

 

[rr6013]

> snip...make a truck that can do both (high speed desert driving and slow offroad crawling) extremely well.
>
Weekend Rock crawling Cybertruck = $3000 Mondays!
Cybertruck as rigid as steel plate; 0% skate deflection for battery - crawls on 2 -3 wheel traction control .vs. lockers. Sedona fun!
Cybertruck ~ 82" wide. Trails out West begin at 66" Forest Service two track so it's limited to unimproved road.
Cybertruck crawling allusions in visual cues (i.e. wheel & tire design, wheel arch and lift) mere illusions for the boulevard crowd.

Cybertruck can pull hard, pull in sand and roll over terrain at speed right off the production line. All begging desert. Its why CA'ians opted-in!

Baja hands it to the uninitiated. Cybertruck will jump exceptionally well by design but stock suspension needs re-engineered specifically for Baja. Think exo-skeletal 1" tube engineered suspension; widened front track width, 12" wide non-street legal bead locks, multi-shock 21" travel and enough lighting to make the Statue of Liberty blush.

Will it win? Elon's engineering prowess partnered with seasoned driver team behind the campaign surely it could. Sponsors are lining up as we speak for free - just for the publicity. Is it genius? It would revolutionize Baja. A win could relegade ICE to sub-class status and EV could change the landscape of racing history the hard way - earn it! It would be a double blow to FORD. Definitely a new brand eSports SIM, win or lose.

Stakes are high. FORD wins? Losing for Tesla means bragging rights to RAPTOR and ICE dominance. No pie throwing contest, Baja is gamble of the first order magnitude in uncontrollable conditions against the unimaginable. Elon's exposure exceeds a pylon run-over video. It requires a fully funded campaign, test track shakedown and specialty vehicle engineering commitment before signing up in Ensenda.

Odds? It will be televised...worldwide. Them's the stakes!

 

[Cybr on]

> snip...make a truck that can do both (high speed desert driving and slow offroad crawling) extremely well.
>
Weekend Rock crawling Cybertruck = $3000 Mondays!
Cybertruck as rigid as steel plate; 0% skate deflection for battery - crawls on 2 -3 wheel traction control .vs. lockers. Sedona fun!
Cybertruck ~ 82" wide. Trails out West begin at 66" Forest Service two track so it's limited to unimproved road.
Cybertruck crawling allusions in visual cues (i.e. wheel & tire design, wheel arch and lift) mere illusions for the boulevard crowd.

Cybertruck can pull hard, pull in sand and roll over terrain at speed right off the production line. All begging desert. Its why CA'ians opted-in!

Baja hands it to the uninitiated. Cybertruck will jump exceptionally well by design but stock suspension needs re-engineered specifically for Baja. Think exo-skeletal 1" tube engineered suspension; widened front track width, 12" wide non-street legal bead locks, multi-shock 21" travel and enough lighting to make the Statue of Liberty blush.

Will it win? Elon's engineering prowess partnered with seasoned driver team behind the campaign surely it could. Sponsors are lining up as we speak for free - just for the publicity. Is it genius? It would revolutionize Baja. A win could relegade ICE to sub-class status and EV could change the landscape of racing history the hard way - earn it! It would be a double blow to FORD. Definitely a new brand eSports SIM, win or lose.

Stakes are high. FORD wins? Losing for Tesla means bragging rights to RAPTOR and ICE dominance. No pie throwing contest, Baja is gamble of the first order magnitude in uncontrollable conditions against the unimaginable. Elon's exposure exceeds a pylon run-over video. It requires a fully funded campaign, test track shakedown and specialty vehicle engineering commitment before signing up in Ensenda.

Odds? It will be televised...worldwide. Them's the stakes!

That was some good read?

 

[Blue Steel]

> snip...make a truck that can do both (high speed desert driving and slow offroad crawling) extremely well.
>
Weekend Rock crawling Cybertruck = $3000 Mondays!
Cybertruck as rigid as steel plate; 0% skate deflection for battery - crawls on 2 -3 wheel traction control .vs. lockers. Sedona fun!
Cybertruck ~ 82" wide. Trails out West begin at 66" Forest Service two track so it's limited to unimproved road.
Cybertruck crawling allusions in visual cues (i.e. wheel & tire design, wheel arch and lift) mere illusions for the boulevard crowd.

Cybertruck can pull hard, pull in sand and roll over terrain at speed right off the production line. All begging desert. Its why CA'ians opted-in!

Baja hands it to the uninitiated. Cybertruck will jump exceptionally well by design but stock suspension needs re-engineered specifically for Baja. Think exo-skeletal 1" tube engineered suspension; widened front track width, 12" wide non-street legal bead locks, multi-shock 21" travel and enough lighting to make the Statue of Liberty blush.

Will it win? Elon's engineering prowess partnered with seasoned driver team behind the campaign surely it could. Sponsors are lining up as we speak for free - just for the publicity. Is it genius? It would revolutionize Baja. A win could relegade ICE to sub-class status and EV could change the landscape of racing history the hard way - earn it! It would be a double blow to FORD. Definitely a new brand eSports SIM, win or lose.

Stakes are high. FORD wins? Losing for Tesla means bragging rights to RAPTOR and ICE dominance. No pie throwing contest, Baja is gamble of the first order magnitude in uncontrollable conditions against the unimaginable. Elon's exposure exceeds a pylon run-over video. It requires a fully funded campaign, test track shakedown and specialty vehicle engineering commitment before signing up in Ensenda.

Odds? It will be televised...worldwide. Them's the stakes!

Reminds me of when Ford started bringing the GT to Le Mans to race against Ferrari. This time it's Elon's turn to show up and dethrone the champ.

 

[fritter63]

If you are worried the CT is too big for your garage.....Build a bigger garage!!

that is pretty much what I did. Sort of.....

After suffering through two garages that were a little short in Denver, (and parking my Ram at an angle), I made sure that when I built the new house, the garage was 25 feet long. So I could park that thing and still walk around it completely with the garage door closed. It was 20'4" bumper to bumper.

So the CT will fit nicely!