Is Range king?

[Fabville]

I did see one article that said that charging infrastructure had supplanted range anxiety as the number one concern. The two are, of course, closely related.

Charging infrastructure has definitely reduced range anxiety for me. The one pain I see is when towing though, it's hassle having to disconnect your trailer if there's isn't a pull in spot available or enough open spots to come in side ways (assuming no one else needs one of those spots). When towing, I tend to try and reduce my supercharger visits as much as possible, but doesn't always work.

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[mrbulk]

As some of you know I strongly believe that Range is king. My opinion is you should buy as much range as you can afford.

Since none of us owns a CT At this time, and we are not really sure of the range we will actually get, especially when towing... I thought I would conduct a little experiment today with my 2017 MS P100D.

i drove up to the lake house today and at the bottom of the hill I noted that I had 17 miles to destination and I need to climb to 5200 feet. My range meter said I had 172 miles of range. Great. My MS was empty except for a duffel bag and my golf clubs. The temps were around 80 degrees and my speed up the mountain was 35-50 miles per hour. How did we Do?

When I arrived I only had 122 miles of range left. So I used approx 2.94 miles of range for every mile traveled up the mountain. Like towing, traveling up the grade uses a lot of battery energy. So basically 3 miles of range for every mile traveled.

OK, is Range king as I have suggested? Let’s take a look at some numbers. My P100D was supposed to get 320 miles of range At 100% SOC. But of course it’s doesn’t get that. Not even close. Now in 3 years I have lost 5% to battery degeneration. at 90% SOC is shows only 274 miles of range. Very disappointing.

If you have a Tri-Motor CT listed 500 miles, you only get a listed 475 with 5% degeneration. At 90% SOC you would end up with only 428 miles of range. Now at 3 miles of range loss for every mile driven with towing that would only get you 143 miles from your destination. Meaning you only really have 71-72 miles of travel each way. 72. Miles.

I suspect towing will greatly reduce the actual miles you can drive a CT. So if the 500 mile Tri-Motor can only drive 143 miles towing one way, what would a dual motor be able to handle?

Interesting to note. When I go down the mountain I pick up between 12-16 miles of range depending on the SOC before I leave. I never charge to 100% when heading down the mountain. You need to leave room for the battery’s to charge as you go down.

Any thoughts?

Yes. Always tow downhill

 

[MEDICALJMP]

As some of you know I strongly believe that Range is king. My opinion is you should buy as much range as you can afford.

Since none of us owns a CT At this time, and we are not really sure of the range we will actually get, especially when towing... I thought I would conduct a little experiment today with my 2017 MS P100D.

i drove up to the lake house today and at the bottom of the hill I noted that I had 17 miles to destination and I need to climb to 5200 feet. My range meter said I had 172 miles of range. Great. My MS was empty except for a duffel bag and my golf clubs. The temps were around 80 degrees and my speed up the mountain was 35-50 miles per hour. How did we Do?

When I arrived I only had 122 miles of range left. So I used approx 2.94 miles of range for every mile traveled up the mountain. Like towing, traveling up the grade uses a lot of battery energy. So basically 3 miles of range for every mile traveled.

OK, is Range king as I have suggested? Let’s take a look at some numbers. My P100D was supposed to get 320 miles of range At 100% SOC. But of course it’s doesn’t get that. Not even close. Now in 3 years I have lost 5% to battery degeneration. at 90% SOC is shows only 274 miles of range. Very disappointing.

If you have a Tri-Motor CT listed 500 miles, you only get a listed 475 with 5% degeneration. At 90% SOC you would end up with only 428 miles of range. Now at 3 miles of range loss for every mile driven with towing that would only get you 143 miles from your destination. Meaning you only really have 71-72 miles of travel each way. 72. Miles.

I suspect towing will greatly reduce the actual miles you can drive a CT. So if the 500 mile Tri-Motor can only drive 143 miles towing one way, what would a dual motor be able to handle?

Interesting to note. When I go down the mountain I pick up between 12-16 miles of range depending on the SOC before I leave. I never charge to 100% when heading down the mountain. You need to leave room for the battery’s to charge as you go down.

Any thoughts?

Agreed. I doubt I will do much towing, but you never know. The primary reason I got trimotor was for the range. I do a number of road trips annually and do not want to waste my time at a charging station. At least at the gas station you can do bathroom breaks and buy a drink/snack. So many of the charging stations I see are stand alone next to other service. If you are driving late nights or during pandemic closures you may be lacking needed services.

 

[Newton]

Agreed. I doubt I will do much towing, but you never know. The primary reason I got trimotor was for the range. I do a number of road trips annually and do not want to waste my time at a charging station. At least at the gas station you can do bathroom breaks and buy a drink/snack. So many of the charging stations I see are stand alone next to other service. If you are driving late nights or during pandemic closures you may be lacking needed services.

I could imagine the tri motor being able to use duel supercharging, it will probably have 2 batteries.

 

[ajdelange]

We've been speculating about that since we found out the Semi works that way.

 

[VI Tesla]

All, don't forge that the battery tech has changed and will continue to change. The initial post here likely had the Model S/X 18650 Cell, Model 3 has the 2170 cells with lower projected degradation and don't forget battery day is coming with a whole new battery chemistry that I hope makes it into the CT.
I range king? I would have agreed a year ago but now convincing arguments are being presented to suggest range will become tailored. If your EV is primarily for short city commutes then 250 miles is likely going to be just fine. If the vehicles intent is going to be long hauls/for towing then yes a higher range will be nice i.e. 400 miles +.
But it's also all a wash with increased hi speed charging infrastructure.
Me I'd rather have the greater lifetime battery ie. million mile, so I don't have to worry about degradation.

 

[isync]

Thanks many ppl for the contribution to those very useful readings here. Really appreciated!! I'd echo that 400+ mile is what drives me into reservation, but I am still hoping my dual motor can reach that 400 mile range when design is finalized. $20k difference is stiff and I may need to forgo the FSD option to get tri motor. We'll see..

 

[rr6013]

As some of you know I strongly believe that Range is king. My opinion is you should buy as much range as you can afford.

Since none of us owns a CT At this time, and we are not really sure of the range we will actually get, especially when towing... I thought I would conduct a little experiment today with my 2017 MS P100D.

i drove up to the lake house today and at the bottom of the hill I noted that I had 17 miles to destination and I need to climb to 5200 feet. My range meter said I had 172 miles of range. Great. My MS was empty except for a duffel bag and my golf clubs. The temps were around 80 degrees and my speed up the mountain was 35-50 miles per hour. How did we Do?

When I arrived I only had 122 miles of range left. So I used approx 2.94 miles of range for every mile traveled up the mountain. Like towing, traveling up the grade uses a lot of battery energy. So basically 3 miles of range for every mile traveled.

OK, is Range king as I have suggested? Let’s take a look at some numbers. My P100D was supposed to get 320 miles of range At 100% SOC. But of course it’s doesn’t get that. Not even close. Now in 3 years I have lost 5% to battery degeneration. at 90% SOC is shows only 274 miles of range. Very disappointing.

If you have a Tri-Motor CT listed 500 miles, you only get a listed 475 with 5% degeneration. At 90% SOC you would end up with only 428 miles of range. Now at 3 miles of range loss for every mile driven with towing that would only get you 143 miles from your destination. Meaning you only really have 71-72 miles of travel each way. 72. Miles.

I suspect towing will greatly reduce the actual miles you can drive a CT. So if the 500 mile Tri-Motor can only drive 143 miles towing one way, what would a dual motor be able to handle?

Interesting to note. When I go down the mountain I pick up between 12-16 miles of range depending on the SOC before I leave. I never charge to 100% when heading down the mountain. You need to leave room for the battery’s to charge as you go down.

Any thoughts?

DUAL Cybertruck might exceed TRI Cybertruck towing due to efficiency. But TRI Cybertruck will out-perform DUAL pulling heavy.

What’s more importan? Range .vs. ? Ask any Tesla owner and they warn about parts availability. Wrecked, damaged or otherwise unserviceable Tesla’s wait and wait on parts. Trucks are working vehicles that earn their keep NOT garage queens. Range may very well be a non-issue IF Cybertrucks start laying awaiting parts. What’s more important then?

 

[Newton]

DUAL Cybertruck might exceed TRI Cybertruck towing due to efficiency. But TRI Cybertruck will out-perform DUAL pulling heavy.

What’s more importan? Range .vs. ? Ask any Tesla owner and they warn about parts availability. Wrecked, damaged or otherwise unserviceable Tesla’s wait and wait on parts. Trucks are working vehicles that earn their keep NOT garage queens. Range may very well be a non-issue IF Cybertrucks start laying awaiting parts. What’s more important then?

That's a good point, I hope tesla thinks about this. (The parts availability thing)

 

[ajdelange]

DUAL Cybertruck might exceed TRI Cybertruck towing due to efficiency. But TRI Cybertruck will out-perform DUAL pulling heavy.

A dual motor might pull a very small trailer farther than a tri can pull a maximum load trailer but at a given level of SoC the tri will always pull the same tailer farther. Efficiency in the towing vehicle (which, in any case, will be pretty much the same in any of the 3 CT flavors) has little to do with towing performance. That is determined mostly by the "efficiency" (i.e Wh/mi consumed) of the trailer.[/QUOTE]

 

[jerhenderson]

DUAL Cybertruck might exceed TRI Cybertruck towing due to efficiency. But TRI Cybertruck will out-perform DUAL pulling heavy.

What’s more importan? Range .vs. ? Ask any Tesla owner and they warn about parts availability. Wrecked, damaged or otherwise unserviceable Tesla’s wait and wait on parts. Trucks are working vehicles that earn their keep NOT garage queens. Range may very well be a non-issue IF Cybertrucks start laying awaiting parts. What’s more important then?

Growing pains - I'll still ditch my last ICE vehicle for my Tri.

 

[jerhenderson]

I don't tow. I want a vehicle with cargo capacity for hwy trips on vacations, with snow clearance of 30cm that will get me easily half way to the next closest city of the same size as where I live... which at 1/2 way is 400km. Trimotor fit that bill.

 

[VolklKatana]

Elon said in the call last night that they are going to aim for 300 mile vehicles going forward. There are lots of variables to unpack there with battery day on the horizon. There is every possibility the new batteries will charge faster, be lighter/heavier and be the million mile variant. The other thing mentioned is that there are different battery compositions for different applications. Could the cybertruck see different battery pack compositions? I think it could be a possibility...and maybe a bit of both for the tri-motor.

 

[jperkey]

It worked out a bit different for us, we went through a lemon law on the 2018 and we ended up with a 2020 Long Range in December

This will be the first Tesla for me. What caught my eye is your mention of the Lemon Law.

Am I understanding that you had a Tesla and that between defects in the vehicle and Tesla's inability to correct the issues, you had to use the Lemon Law to get satisfaction?

 

[Fabville]

This will be the first Tesla for me. What caught my eye is your mention of the Lemon Law.

Am I understanding that you had a Tesla and that between defects in the vehicle and Tesla's inability to correct the issues, you had to use the Lemon Law to get satisfaction?

Yes, we had a handful of issues with our 2018 Model X. It ended with us having to get an attorney. Long story a bit shorter, the issues we had were:

Misaligned lift gate: I spoke to a service manager, he agreed that it just needed to come down on the driver side, there was no reason for them to adjust the falcon wing door (FWD), the gaps and body lines all matched up well from the front door, FWD. When I went to pick it up, I was on the other side of the parking lot and could they had unnecessarily adjusted the FWD. When I got home, I measured the gap with a set of calipers and it was over an 8mm gap between the front door and driver door. It went back 3 additional times to have them attempt to re-adjust it, in the end it was worse than when we first took delivery after 4 attempts.

Yellowing around the edges of the touchscreen: They now have a tool that seems to fix this using a UV light, they were able to fix ours with this.

Weatherstripping: Our windows seemed to get excessively fogged up in colder weather. They were supposed to run an ultrasonic test, but did a different check instead and couldn't find any issues. Our 2020 has been in colder weather and has not seen the amount of fogging up as our 2018 did.

Chargeport: At one point our vehicle wouldn't charge with Level 2 charging, but supercharging continued to work (probably since it bypasses the onboard charge), but then that stopped working shortly after too. I had to bring it in a week ahead of a scheduled appointment since I couldn't charge it at all. They were able to fix this and get it repaired.

It sounds like the Model Y has had some quality issues too, similar to when the Model 3 first ramped up. Seems like it takes Tesla a while to get their production line dialed in with new models especially.