FSD / Autopilot safety vs liberty

[lukefrisbee]

Going forward AI will be better trained in most all situations just as ABS braking supercedes human brake control today. Not a single driver challenges the inability to turn-off ABS brake systems on their car. SO incremental implementation, regulation and certification on new AI systems will follow the ABS example.

The question is all but mute for safety systems implemented individually, incrementally and certified by an approved authority. The implication Dids question implies " general" AI (i.e. FSD, HAL, etc...). Artificial general intelligence is a hypothetical intelligent machine learning that has the capacity to understand or learn any intellectual task that a human can. Decades into the future, generalAI and Dids will square off on taking over the whole car, human detrimental reliance and society regulatory mandate over safetyAI.

In the intervening decades, incremental improvements in FSD will begat AI subsystems purpose designed for critical safety componentry to take over systems in cars. I expect subsystems to follow ABS's example. The nexus where human intervention and subsystems cross will blur and either integrate with human behavior (aka ABS) or supercede human interaction and by definition exclude independent human input by design, experience or regulation at some point.

Going forward the argument narrows on evidence based facts, human factors and the points at which AI supercedes.

You made seat belts pop into my head.... All my life they have been in a car but not until the 1990's were there laws that took the decision away from the individual to wear them. I expect Johnny Law to decide whether FDS will be a choice while on public roads.

Off topic...the reason I want FDS is so I can quit having to figure out WTF "you" are doing when I am driving. I've NEVER caused an accident, and only been in one (Long Story, the cops had a hard time believing how stupid the other driver was. I actually broke the law to avoid him and he still got me.) But dodging idiots ( I think some call it defensive driving?) takes too much energy, let a machine figure it out.
I've even thought about how slow FDS may have to be in its infancy (compared to my 10 mph over the limit tendency). I'd willingly spend 25% more time travelling if I did not have to pay attention at all. Maybe more.

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[rr6013]

You made seat belts pop into my head.... All my life they have been in a car but not until the 1990's were there laws that took the decision away from the individual to wear them. I expect Johnny Law to decide whether FDS will be a choice while on public roads.

Off topic...the reason I want FDS is so I can quit having to figure out WTF "you" are doing when I am driving. I've NEVER caused an accident, and only been in one (Long Story, the cops had a hard time believing how stupid the other driver was. I actually broke the law to avoid him and he still got me.) But dodging idiots ( I think some call it defensive driving?) takes too much energy, let a machine figure it out.
I've even thought about how slow FDS may have to be in its infancy (compared to my 10 mph over the limit tendency). I'd willingly spend 25% more time travelling if I did not have to pay attention at all. Maybe more.

That there defines a Defensive Driving subsystem. You would activate it to do " predictable" DD, read insurance discounted, or inactivate when you over-speed the vehicle on your own, read self-insured, since insurance will up your premium on evidence-based record. So you are forced to self-insure eventually.

 

[Dids]

https://electrek.co/2020/05/02/tesla-record-safety-autopilot-improvement/amp/
I didn't realize that some day soon.. would be within 2 wks.

 

[drcarric2650]

I voted YES on this poll, however I don't think it is a yes or no question. If FSD is common place, then traffic tickets and accidents should apply to if a driver can turn off FSD.

 

[hotgrips123]

Didn't you folks see the movie 2001 space odyssey? Remember Hal? Not good to turn over ALL control. LOL, you get in the vehicle and WHAM all doors lock and you get taken for a ride to the Police Station, warrant we don't need no stinking warrant. I ALWAYS want control of MY vehicle.

You probably will welcome FSD when you start to wonder if early onset Alzheimer's Disease may become an issue, with no family nor friends close by.

 

[Sirfun]

I get the desire to have a FSD vehicle. My issue in this thread is that ultimately a human needs to have a shut off switch. I had a dirt bike in the 70's get stuck in FULL throttle without a kill switch. I don't ever want to go through that kind of terror again. How about those pilots in the Boeing 737's that crashed fighting with automated flight control. I just think you have to be able to shut it down.

 

[Dids]

I get the desire to have a FSD vehicle. My issue in this thread is that ultimately a human needs to have a shut off switch. I had a dirt bike in the 70's get stuck in FULL throttle without a kill switch. I don't ever want to go through that kind of terror again. How about those pilots in the Boeing 737's that crashed fighting with automated flight control. I just think you have to be able to shut it down.

Please don't leave us hanging. How did it end? Tell the whole story. ?

 

[OneLapper]

I live in CT and work in Mass. Right on the boarder there's a "T" intersection that is completely blind from the west. It's fine in my pickup, I can see "just" enough over the crest of the road to see the roof of the average car. In my car, it's totally blind. If someone is speeding from the west, it's extremely dangerous, you have only seconds to get across the intersection.

The only way I imagine any car with FSD to navigate that intersections is when all cars have FSD and are aware of where every other car, FSD or not, is precisely located.

 

[Sirfun]

Please don't leave us hanging. How did it end? Tell the whole story. ?

LOL, it took me a sec. to realize you meant the story of the runaway motorcycle! OK, here goes. I was 18 yrs old and practicing on a Motocross track near Miramar in San Diego. My Penton 125 was at full throttle in 3rd gear of a 6speed, coming into a sharp 180deg. turn at the top of a hill. The instant I let off the gas and hit the brakes, the futility of jamming on the brakes was obvious. This bike had a mind of it own and I was along for the ride. We flew over the banking, off the track and so began the wild ride. Luckily there was plenty of open space beyond the turn and I was basically pointing the bike into any safe spots I could find. At one point I went in-between the 4 legs of a 100' power tower. After about 2 minutes, I crashed in knee high grass. This is when the fun starts. Now I run over to my bike that's laying on the ground and the rear tire is spinning at a million MPH, with the engine screaming at beyond redline. WTH am I gonna do. I gotta save my bike! Somehow I come up with the idea to pull the spark plug wire. I pull the wire and holey hell, I'm getting ZAPPED!!! It took several seconds to get from 12,000 rpm back to zero. Finally silence, and the recollection I'm ALIVE! DAMN that was crazy! I look over the bike trying to understand WHY did that just happen. When I realize the carburetor cap had UN-threaded itself and with cap loose it had no resistance for the spring inside. Which meant Full Throttle. So, I was able to thread it back on and hand tighten the cap to ride the bike back to the truck. After something like that happens, it does a number on you for awhile. THAT DAMN BIKE FELT LIKE IT WAS POSSESSED!!!!