What's the deal with side view mirrors?

[Crissa]

unless you get mirrors extended like this mounted on both sides <smile>

:

Then the view will be worse. No angle correction and magnification from the camera.

-Crissa

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[Jhodgesatmb]

I saw a recent YT video with Bjorn Nyland( a well known Tesla YTer who lives in Norway) and he talked about the Audi EV that had the side cameras and he didn't care for them. Some of it due to the crap getting on the lens and the location of the screens, that it was easier to use side mirrors

That is the NHTSA takes years to come to a conclusion. We should be happy that they are so careful. This business has been going on for a decade with lots of players. One person’s view is hardly worth noting except as a data point. I’ve seen videos by the man you are referring to. Not bad, but not scientific either.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

personally id rather have traditional side mirrors especially for towing.

And you are welcome to your views and your mirrors. This is not about what ‘you’ are allowed to do but what the industry is allowed to do. The industry is allowed to, even must, use mirrors. They want to be able to use cameras. If you have a strong and valid argument as to why cameras should not be allowed, then share it with the NHTSA. They are the ones you want to listen, not the rest of us. And Tesla of course.

 

[Nanodot]

Then the view will be worse. No angle correction and magnification from the camera.

-Crissa

ok, i concede that point. The thing about mirrors is people get used to them a certain way that works for them.

They had to get used to the curved mirror type problems due to that change and variation between brands of vehicle.

My 1st 2 cars did not even have 'em. (not required in 1947). Now my car has both the camera and the mirror and i never look at the camera view - cause i never "think to look there" as i need to make a fast decision lane change.

Maybe the CT will have the mirror style can be without servos or heaters etc. so they can be "epoxied/glued" on so owners can remove them if they like with no holes into the body to plug.

BTW, I know this topic has been beaten to death in other threads on this forum. it must be a recurring topic that weighs on people's minds ...

 

[shocker]

I live in an area where it rains and/or snows, at least one time every week. Based on my experiences with cameras getting obscured by various forms of precipitation and road residues (salt and dirt) I'd want mirrors.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

I live in an area where it rains and/or snows, at least one time every week. Based on my experiences with cameras getting obscured by various forms of precipitation and road residues (salt and dirt) I'd want mirrors.

Have you tried RainX?

 

[Dids]

I live in an area where it rains and/or snows, at least one time every week. Based on my experiences with cameras getting obscured by various forms of precipitation and road residues (salt and dirt) I'd want mirrors.

Yes cameras are smaller and so a little dirt has a bigger effect. But just like anything how its implemented has the biggest impact on performance.
If you put a mirror on the tail gate of a truck it would get just as dirty and conversely a camera on the side of the vehicle should stay as clean as a mirror on the side.

 

[Crissa]

I live in an area where it rains and/or snows, at least one time every week. Based on my experiences with cameras getting obscured by various forms of precipitation and road residues (salt and dirt) I'd want mirrors.

Like mirrors never fog or get covered in rain/snow/mud? ^-^

-Crissa

 

[shocker]

Like mirrors never fog or get covered in rain/snow/mud? ^-^

-Crissa

In my experience, they don't. It's the side windows that need snow/frost clearing.

 

[Dids]

In my experience, they don't. It's the side windows that need snow/frost clearing.

So you are saying a camera would work better because you wouldn't have to clear the side windows?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I live in an area where it rains and/or snows, at least one time every week. Based on my experiences with cameras getting obscured by various forms of precipitation and road residues (salt and dirt) I'd want mirrors.

Then you will also never use any of the Tesla safety or navigation enhancement features as they all depend on cameras and other sensors that might so be impacted. We get a lot of rain during parts of the year and it doesn’t seem to affect the cameras, but glare does.

 

[LoPro]

Hi All, does anyone if the CT will be fitted with traditional-ish side view mirrors? Or is it confirmed they will be camera based?

Not that Tesla is bound by their CT prototype at all, but they seem to look to side view cameras on the Semi as well, so I would guess they could differentiate between markets and deliver both mirrors and cameras, much like what Audi does with the e-Tron. In Europe side view cameras are legal, but Europe isn’t the CTs primary market so who knows?

*If* they are planning to deliver the CT with side view cameras I’m surprised that wasn’t shown and made an option on the new S and X refresh though. It’s an easy change exterior wise, and they had full freedom in the new interior, but it is not common to not have screens in approximately the same place as mirrors in the interior. Some Semi renderings were shown with the side view camera image shown on that side of the middle main screen, but in the Semi that screen is even bigger and directly in front of the driver.

So, at this point the omission of mirrors doesn’t seem to be reflected in the CT interior and it mostly seems to be for dramatic effect of the prototype (much like the missing wipers). And given that the CT primary market is the US I think it will come with side view mirrors. I *hope* cameras will be an option though if only in Europe (if it gets there). Just for the futuristic look even though cameras may be inferior in some regards.

We’ll get updated renderings soon I hope. The interior might change as well then.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Not that Tesla is bound by their CT prototype at all, but they seem to look to side view cameras on the Semi as well, so I would guess they could differentiate between markets and deliver both mirrors and cameras, much like what Audi does with the e-Tron. In Europe side view cameras are legal, but Europe isn’t the CTs primary market so who knows?

*If* they are planning to deliver the CT with side view cameras I’m surprised that wasn’t shown and made an option on the new S and X refresh though. It’s an easy change exterior wise, and they had full freedom in the new interior, but it is not common to not have screens in approximately the same place as mirrors in the interior. Some Semi renderings were shown with the side view camera image shown on that side of the middle main screen, but in the Semi that screen is even bigger and directly in front of the driver.

So, at this point the omission of mirrors doesn’t seem to be reflected in the CT interior and it mostly seems to be for dramatic effect of the prototype (much like the missing wipers). And given that the CT primary market is the US I think it will come with side view mirrors. I *hope* cameras will be an option though if only in Europe (if it gets there). Just for the futuristic look even though cameras as inferior in some regards.

We’ll get updated renderings soon I hope. The interior might change as well then.

These are good points. The only thing I would even guess at is that when the unveiling was done the width of the vehicle was presented and when they have external mirrors that is usually part of the width (with and without) and it wasn’t included. Also, Elon was seen driving around LA with it on several occasions and it never had any mirrors. Maybe a manufacturer has special permission to do this...I wouldn’t know.

 

[LoPro]

These are good points. The only thing I would even guess at is that when the unveiling was done the width of the vehicle was presented and when they have external mirrors that is usually part of the width (with and without) and it wasn’t included. Also, Elon was seen driving around LA with it on several occasions and it never had any mirrors. Maybe a manufacturer has special permission to do this...I wouldn’t know.

I have made that argument myself about the measurement of the width. Compared to trucks with mirrors the CT might actually have a wider body if the mirrors are not included (instead of seeming to be approx the same as other trucks as comparisons show). Those are only temporary measurements though.

I think I have only seen the CT prototype on the streets (in videos) with a leading or follower car, and Porsche also drove around California with journalists in their prototype Mission-E EV with special license plates and a leading car. I would think they can apply to drive almost whatever on the streets in very limited numbers if they take a lot of precautions, as long as it’s for testing purposes of something meant for production.

 

[Dids]

I have made that argument myself about the measurement of the width. Compared to trucks with mirrors the CT might actually have a wider body if the mirrors are not included (instead of seeming to be approx the same as other trucks as comparisons show). Those are only temporary measurements though.

I think I have only seen the CT prototype on the streets (in videos) with a leading or follower car, and Porsche also drove around California with journalists in their prototype Mission-E EV with special license plates and a leading car. I would think they can apply to drive almost whatever on the streets in very limited numbers if they take a lot of precautions, as long as it’s for testing purposes of something meant for production.

The CT measurements are nearly identical to f150 measurements without mirrors. Prototype was not wider than f150.