Canceling FSD

[cybertruck808]

Well, you aren't going to be able to have the Cybertruck for quite some time, either. But if you buy FSD, you'll be able to use the features as they're released/legalized. It's not illegal to use current released features in any state. Nor illegal to use it in parking lots and private property.

-Crissa

And for those who think such is a worthwhile investment/use of their money, I say more power to them. I'm just not convinced that it is worth it for me to spend that extra money when I likely won't be able to utilize the full spectrum of FSD on the road anytime soon.

Do you have something to support that it is not illegal to use the current released features in any state? From what I gather, this refers to there not being legislation in any state that explicitly bans any form of autonomous driving (only a handful of states have actually passed legislation specifically authorizing the practice, though), but there are other laws and legal assumptions that don't explicitly deal with autonomous driving that could be used by authorities to pull you over/make an arrest for utilizing certain FSD features today I'd wager: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/are-self-driving-cars-legal-31687#:~:text=Since the beginning of 2012,actually enacted any such laws.

I'm thinking of laws concerning the requirement to have a permit or drivers license to "operate a motor vehicle." I'm sure more than a few states will argue that "operate" means actually having physical/personal/hands-on control of a vehicle consistent with the skills you proved that you learned in obtaining your permit/license to begin with.

For instance, in Massachusetts:

"A person “operates” a motor vehicle not only while doing all of the well-known things that drivers do as they travel on a street or highway, but also when doing any act which directly tends to set the vehicle in motion. The law is that a person is “operating” a motor vehicle whenever he or she is in the vehicle and intentionally manipulates some mechanical or electrical part of the vehicle — like the gear shift or the ignition — which, alone or in sequence, will set the vehicle in motion."

https://www.mass.gov/doc/3200-operation-of-a-motor-vehicle/download#:~:text=The law is that a,Commonwealth v.

I also note that the common law definition of "operation" generally involves the actual physical handling or manipulation of the electrical or mechanical controls of a motor vehicle, including the starting of the vehicle's engine. And there must be evidence that someone exercised some control or manipulation over the vehicle, such as steering or braking, etc.

https://www.teamdui.com/what-constitutes-operating-a-vehicle/ (note, this common law stuff deals with arguments over DUIs, but the overall point remains).

In Michigan, operating a vehicle requires you to be in actual physical control of a vehicle.

https://www.baronedefensefirm.com/blog/definition-of-driving-in-dui-cases/

That seems like more than enough to argue that various FSD features aren't legal everywhere. Still, there is a level of vagueness there. But this vagueness and uncertainty are something to consider as well when making your decision.

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[Frankenblob]

Hello all! First post so apologies if this has been addressed. I have a trimotor with FSD reserved and I think i am about 1,100,000th in line if I read the spreadsheet correctly. The more I have thought about it, the more I am leaning toward saving the $8,000 for FSD and using it for accessories/options that I would use more often. No plans to do robotaxi or anything like that.
Is there any indication that I could remove the FSD driving option during final configuration? Or do I need to redo my preorder? Thanks!

As was said, it is up to you.

I personally am NOT into all the "A.I" , computer control stuff.

The joy and thrill of driving, at least to me, is being taken away and I LOVE driving-whether a bicycle, motorbike, boat or vehicle.

Remember "A.I." Is as DUMB as the smartest programmer and therein lies the neandrathalness.

 

[ajdelange]

Let me remind everyone again that you are not paying $7-10k for the ability to send the vehicle to your kid's school to pick him up and bring him home. You aren't going to get that. What you are going to get is the ability to maintain speed, keep lanes, navigate and avoid collisions under your direct and constant supervision. This can be a big help to a driver especially on a long trip. You need to decide whether you want to pay the money for that. I have had that in 2 Teslas and think it's worth it. Others may not.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

While I could have, perhaps, been clearer, I thought it was clear enough that I was referring to the actual utilization of FSD (i.e. autonomous driving) as opposed to merely owning the technology. This is why I wrote "road legal" and not just "legal." Indeed, if FSD wasn't legal, Tesla wouldn't be selling it. My point was that the use of FSD won't be legal nationwide for quite some time, which makes me question whether it makes sense to spend $7,500 on a feature that I likely won't be able to lawfully use for quite some time.

Sorry but you are still confused. Whatever FSD is, at any point in time, it is a set of functional (please note the word “functional”) features that you can use. All legal. Level 5 autonomy is a policy; if you look at the SAE table it only speaks of the role of the driver and not of specific functionality provided by the vehicle. At some point functionality and policy will overlap but right now they only intersect. Cruise control is one functional feature that is in that intersection but you cannot trust cruise control to work without the driver paying attention in many contexts. The same is and will likely be true for a long time for many FSD features. But I can see that FSD is not something for you because you don’t understand, and don’t care about, the technology. You want (we all do) a system where you can sleep while the car drives you around. Don’t buy FSD, because unless you plan to own your truck for 15-20 years I don’t think you will be happy with the investment. I will be happy with it the day I get my Cybertruck because I am happy with what it can do today and from what I have seen of the FSD beta videos it is going to be awesome in a year. Not Level 5, but awesome, and I can be happy with that.

 

[alan auerbach]

I read somewhere on here that FSD and suspension-adjustability would be linked (according to Musk, as I recall).

Hope that won't mean that if we don't spring for FSD, we'll miss out on something with the suspension adjustability. (I'll want to raise the road clearance for deep snow, but for the extra price of FSD -- which won't work if there's snow on the road -- I could buy a whole car.)

 

[Crissa]

That seems like more than enough to argue ...

Have you heard the term 'not even wrong'?

FSD is a set of potential features, some of which have been released, which by design, hopefully results in a vehicle that can do errands on its own.

Right now, though, it's a system which is like having someone with a driver's permit in your car at all times. Yes, you need someone with a license to watch it, keep a steady hand for mistakes, etc. It learns new places and techniques all the time. And the version that isn't $10k doesn't have the permit and can only sit in the passenger seat and yell out when it sees hazards.

And yes, you aren't going to have your Cybertruck soon. So why act like it's a decision point now?

-Crissa

 

[cybertruck808]

Have you heard the term 'not even wrong'?

FSD is a set of potential features, some of which have been released, which by design, hopefully results in a vehicle that can do errands on its own.

Right now, though, it's a system which is like having someone with a driver's permit in your car at all times. Yes, you need someone with a license to watch it, keep a steady hand for mistakes, etc. It learns new places and techniques all the time. And the version that isn't $10k doesn't have the permit and can only sit in the passenger seat and yell out when it sees hazards.

And yes, you aren't going to have your Cybertruck soon. So why act like it's a decision point now?

-Crissa

To be clear, yes the proper use of FSD as described by Tesla today is legal everywhere as Tesla tells you to keep your hands on the wheel at all times. But I'd wager that people are not spending this kind of money for the promise of having to keep their hands on the wheel at all times. No, it is this future use of FSD that people are betting on. But, from where I stand, I'm not sure that this is worth the investment today (maybe it is, maybe it isn't), especially if there is no guarantee that such future use will be legal anytime soon (it certainly isn't legal throughout most of the country today).

For those who think that the investment in FSD is worth the price today, I say great. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on the issue. Just sharing my thoughts and hesitations.

And I certainly never claimed this is a decision point now. But I hardly see the issue of legality vs. use of FSD (not proper use of FSD today, but the use that people envision) being resolved anytime soon, which is why I discuss now.

 

[rr6013]

I read somewhere on here that FSD and suspension-adjustability would be linked (according to Musk, as I recall).

Hope that won't mean that if we don't spring for FSD, we'll miss out on something with the suspension adjustability. (I'll want to raise the road clearance for deep snow, but for the extra price of FSD -- which won't work if there's snow on the road -- I could buy a whole car.)

Below is Tesla marketing copy at launch:

ADAPTIVE AIR SUSPENSION
Raise and lower suspension four inches in either direction for easy access to Cybertruck or its vault, its self-leveling capability adapts to any occasion to assist you on every job.

Months later IIRC Elon Musk asserted that dynamic suspension would be linked to FSD. Dynamic might be something like this:
14” wheel travel, dynamic 6” ride height adjustability, UpperLower control arms all 4 corners/Dynamically adjusts for load

Off-Road 2 - this mode provides the most ground clearance for the path and trail and generous angles for approach, departure and breakover. The difference from normal is +2.0 inches.


Off-Road 1 - like Off-Road 2 mode but with less rise. The difference from normal is +1.2 inches front and +0.9 inches rear.


Dynamic mode- balance of ride and handling FSD everyday driving.


Aero mode - automatically lowers the vehicle, reducing aerodynamic drag and “body roll,” and measurably improves fuel efficiency. Only useable at highway speeds. The difference from normal is -0.6 inches.

Courtesy mode - automatically lowers the vehicle, making it easier to get in and out of your truck, load your bed or hook up your trailer. This mode is manually controlled by the internal button bank or remotely with the key fob. The difference from normal is -2.1 inches front and -1.7 inches rear.


Baja mode* OTA update after running CT and a finish in the top 3

* note: this is pure SWAG. Ground truth is nobody knows how CT will deliver and it inter-operates with AI hardware3, FSD or Twitter.

 

[Cyberpunk 2021]

To be clear...

Reading your responses to people is frustrating and reasoning with you is futile.

You say things that are patently false, someone corrects you, and your response is to insist this is a result of miscommunication. You'll no doubt respond by saying I misunderstand you. Don't -- that would be a waste of your time and, more importantly, a waste of my time.

I think you should not get FSD. It would be disappointing to squander assets on someone not capable of appreciating its worth.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about FSD. We ordered it our M3 and my CT reservation has it, but I like to drive and what I really want is a sort of ‘wingman’ in that I would like the system to jump in if I do something stupid or dangerous (assuming for the moment that they aren’t the same) but otherwise let me drive. It would have all the capabilities of FSD but would really just be riding shotgun. That is how drivers ed and learning to fly planes works, albeit with human instructors.

 

[Newton]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about FSD. We ordered it our M3 and my CT reservation has it, but I like to drive and what I really want is a sort of ‘wingman’ in that I would like the system to jump in if I do something stupid or dangerous (assuming for the moment that they aren’t the same) but otherwise let me drive. It would have all the capabilities of FSD but would really just be riding shotgun. That is how drivers ed and learning to fly planes works, albeit with human instructors.

im pretty sure the non fsd features do that already, lane assist, auto slow/stop if the car in front of u stomps on its breaks, etc.

 

[Crissa]

im pretty sure the non fsd features do that already, lane assist, auto slow/stop if the car in front of u stomps on its breaks, etc.

Some are in Enhances Autopilot, some are not.

Most things that turn out to be safety features are ported to the basic tier - because safer cars is a huge selling feature.

But in a way, we're financing the future of these features by paying for them now.

-Crissa