New Battery Range & Pack Architecture [Announced at Battery Day]

[lqdchkn]

Tesla already accounts for a certain percentage of dead cells over a pack's lifetime, so it's already "baked in"

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[CappyJax]

They said that slot of the energy density increases come from using silicone anode. The 5x is not because the cell is larger. A 2170 cell with the new tech would also have a 5x increase

Yes they said CT would be using the new batteries particularly benefiting from nickel cathode. Does that mean all CT will have them from the start? They didn't say. But once the start producing the new tech why wouldn't they put if in CT? Elon did say the tech is not ready...

If it was five times the energy density, then that would give you five times the range. That would be a battery with around 1,250 Wh/kg. If that was announced, Tesla stock would be would have skyrocketed. No, the energy increased is because of the size increase. The energy density decreases slightly.

 

[Dids]

If it was five times the energy density, then that would give you five times the range. That would be a battery with around 1,250 Wh/kg. If that was announced, Tesla stock would be would have skyrocketed. No, the energy increased is because of the size increase. The energy density decreases slightly.

Yes I rewatched the presentation and the 5x energy pertains to the larger cell size. The new cell 5.4 x larger but it stores 5 x the energy based only on the form factor change. Then the new cell uses other changes in anode and cathode materials that does increase energy density, with the end result being 380wh/kg a 54% improvement. That is a significant energy density increase.

 

[android04]

More range the better, but faster charging times are important too. I want it all. Lol. The question I keep getting when I say I’m buying a Cybertruck. What if you want to go on a long car trips? It’ll take 3 times as long if you drive an electric on a long trip. I try to explain you have to figure out charging points and hotels now have charging stations too. People look at me like I’m speaking another language. Anyone else have this?

Edit: After re-reading your post, I now see that the 3x charge time for long trips is what ignorant people ask you about. I'm sorry I misunderstood your post and thought that you believed it took 3x as long with an EV. I will let the rest of my post stand just as well.

I'm not sure where you are getting that it takes 3x as long to drive an EV on a long road trip. When I've given my coworkers test drives of my Model 3 I have the car navigate (from Lincoln, NE) to San Diego, CA as a demo of how the car routes you through Superchargers and tells you how long to charge at each one. The routing section has a button, "Remove all charging stops", that would show you how long it would take if you didn't have to stop for anything whatsoever. In that example, it takes about 26 hours and 20 minutes (including charging 11 times for 4 hours and 1 minute). If you remove all the charging stops because you had a 1600 mile range battery and a bladder of steel it would take you about 22 hours and 19 minutes. By my math, that's only 1.18x as long.

Now the Cybertruck is bigger and heavier and will use up more energy while cruising down the interstate. But with the new tabless DBE battery packs and improved cooling it should charge faster. Even if it will be charged with the same Generation 2 or 3 Superchargers that are currently available, the charge rates could possibly not taper off until a much higher charge level of 80% or 90%. Currently, the charge rate on Teslas starts tapering off around 50% and continues to taper off as the charge level gets higher.

 

[CappyJax]

Yes I rewatched the presentation and the 5x energy pertains to the larger cell size. The new cell 5.4 x larger but it stores 5 x the energy based only on the form factor change. Then the new cell uses other changes in anode and cathode materials that does increase energy density, with the end result being 380wh/kg a 54% improvement. That is a significant energy density increase.

They were vague on purpose hoping people would draw this conclusion. The 4680 doesn't provide a 54% improvement. That is technology they are working on for the future.

 

[Dids]

They were vague on purpose hoping people would draw this conclusion. The 4680 doesn't provide a 54% improvement. That is technology they are working on for the future.

This isn't vague. It's a slide from the presentation. I'm not saying that they aren't lying but this is what they said.

 

[Alan]

This isn't vague. It's a slide from the presentation. I'm not saying that they aren't lying but this is what they said.

My impression was that the new size provides a 16% increase. The Rest of the 54% will be realized in the future as manufacturing problems get solved.

 

[Nightf0rge]

When it's -30c below you'll loose 40 to 50% of your capacity is why.

Towing, My far fetched hope was maybe the stated ranges ARE towing ranges with the new battery tech.

 

[CappyJax]

This isn't vague. It's a slide from the presentation. I'm not saying that they aren't lying but this is what they said.

Yeah, that isn't showing the benefits of the 4680. It is showing future goals. The 4680 isn't going to provide an increase in energy density.

 

[cyberhunter]

Yeah, that isn't showing the benefits of the 4680. It is showing future goals. The 4680 isn't going to provide an increase in energy density.

I guess I'm misreading that slide from the presentation, but I thought it was 40% from the upcoming battery tech they are producing right now at the pilot plant, plus another 14% range that will happen as a result of how they plan to integrate the pack as a structural member on new vehicle configurations. If the cathode and anode material are not what they are using in the batteries they are producing at the pilot plant, then I would still read it as 14% increase in range based purely on the new cell they are producing at the pilot plant.

 

[Crissa]

The 4680 not just part of it. The size is where it gets its name...

But it also has a new anode. And a new cathode. And a new electrolyte. And a new installation system. And a new tab.

And they're working on how to make it cheaper. And building the machines to do so. That's what the next year is.

-Crissa

 

[Newton]

Random thing I noticed today... the size of these new cells is about the same as a toilet paper roll cardboard inner cylinder. 45x100 is what mine measured as (I'm sure it varies a bit though) vs the battery cell cylinder size of 46x80. So the tp roll is longer but not by much.

 

[Dids]

Random thing I noticed today... the size of these new cells is about the same as a toilet paper roll cardboard inner cylinder. 45x100 is what mine measured as (I'm sure it varies a bit though) vs the battery cell cylinder size of 46x80. So the tp roll is longer but not by much.

If you roll the tp inside the tube it would look even more like the cell.

 

[lqdchkn]

Yeah, that isn't showing the benefits of the 4680. It is showing future goals. The 4680 isn't going to provide an increase in energy density.

Sure it is. It clearly breaks this up. There is 16% increase is the increase due to simply having more material available. Then because the 4680 has a new Anode material it has an additional 20% increase. Then again because because it has a new Cathode it gets an additional 4% increase. Thats a 40% increase just due to the 4680. When you add that you then redesign the vehicle to be lighter when using the 4680 that's where the last 14% comes in.

 

[fritter63]

Random thing I noticed today... the size of these new cells is about the same as a toilet paper roll cardboard inner cylinder. 45x100 is what mine measured as (I'm sure it varies a bit though) vs the battery cell cylinder size of 46x80. So the tp roll is longer but not by much.

Some of my best ideas come during the morning poop....