Is Cybertruck disposable?

[Nightf0rge]

"You can have reliability or serviceability, Pick one, You can't have both." Sandy Monro.

The above quote from Monro regarding the epoxied batteries in frame construction and the single front and rear castings have me wondering, Is the Cybertruck "totaled" if the frame or segment of the battery section is damaged? For instance is it practical to replace the front frame casting if a front right quarter was damaged? or a cracked frame section? I know that in most cars if the frame is bent the car is totaled but was hoping there would be a practical way to repair the CT cost effectively. Thoughts from people here with more mechanical experience on trucks?

I know the Cybertruck will be reliable but plan to have this vehicle for a long while!

Autoline Network Podcast, Monro quote at 10:00

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[TheLastStarfighter]

"You can have reliability or serviceability, Pick one, You can't have both." That's one of the dumbest quotes I've ever heard.

 

[Crissa]

"You can have reliability or serviceability, Pick one, You can't have both." That's one of the dumbest quotes I've ever heard.

The two things are pretty opposed, though.

Serviceable parts have to be removable. That itself is a point of failure.

Especially if you want it light and compact.

-Criss

 

[Nightf0rge]

The two things are pretty opposed, though.

Serviceable parts have to be removable. That itself is a point of failure.

Especially if you want it light and compact.

-Criss

Right, so If I damage or crack a small part of the molded internal frame, can that be repaired? Aluminum isn't as easy to weld as steel. Seems like once you need a new entire HALF of the frame to be replaced that isn't feasible. I guess the counter argument would be less moving parts / less failure in general and if it's damaged that badly would be totaled anyway? Just such a change from "okay I need to replace these 3 small parts and do some body work.

 

[Crissa]

Right, so If I damage or crack a small part of the molded internal frame, can that be repaired?

I really don't know what their plan is.

The Cybertruck is meant to have the steel be weight-bearing, with the aluminum as stiffening. Unlike their other cars.

Epoxying the batteries in can happen in different ways. In a Zero, it's like a rubbery glue that holds everything together. In an Energica, it's a solid casting that the cells sort of slot into, only at the ends are they taped into the conductors. So Zero battery pack isn't really reparable, but an Energica's is. However, damage to the pack shell usually necessitates the entire thing be recycled in either case.

I expect yes, it will be expensive to fix, but I also expect them to only use these castings with batteries on very in-board pieces - you don't want them to be damaged in an impact. And the piece of the Y they showed was the piece that holds the motors, not the batteries.

In other words, if the piece with the batteries is damaged, you've basically broken into the passenger compartment and it's going to be totaled anyhow.

-Crissa

 

[Hoppi]

If I remember correctly, the battery day presentation made the point that the lower overall volume of the new battery packs allowed the batteries to be more centrally located (and thus even further from the sides of the vehicle). The point was made that it was a benefit in the ride of the car. In the case of a side collision though it would also mean that the colliding vehicle would have to travel even further into the passenger area before hitting the battery structure.
So I agree with @Crissa here. That size of an accident is most likely going to total the vehicle anyway.
Now in the CT’s case there may be a different issue in that some serious off-roading over rocks etc might damage the battery pack from below. Hopefully the bottom of the truck will be seriously reinforced to prevent that.

 

[Nightf0rge]

I really don't know what their plan is.

The Cybertruck is meant to have the steel be weight-bearing, with the aluminum as stiffening. Unlike their other cars.

Epoxying the batteries in can happen in different ways. In a Zero, it's like a rubbery glue that holds everything together. In an Energica, it's a solid casting that the cells sort of slot into, only at the ends are they taped into the conductors. So Zero battery pack isn't really reparable, but an Energica's is. However, damage to the pack shell usually necessitates the entire thing be recycled in either case.

I expect yes, it will be expensive to fix, but I also expect them to only use these castings with batteries on very in-board pieces - you don't want them to be damaged in an impact. And the piece of the Y they showed was the piece that holds the motors, not the batteries.

In other words, if the piece with the batteries is damaged, you've basically broken into the passenger compartment and it's going to be totaled anyhow.

-Crissa

Yes, that makes sense. The exoskeleton and structure of the CT will be much more resistant to damage then other trucks and if damage reaches the battery area or internal frame, then it's a very large impact and damaged beyond repair anyway. Hopefully cracked frame / battery puncture from below due to off-roading will be very uncommon. The outer Stainless skin should be great for minor repairs or leave the "battle damage" for character.

 

[Crissa]

They say they're looking at recyclability. That should mean that they'll be looking at how they can take the lithium and nickel back out of the parts... And it should also mean they're thinking ahead about what parts are replaceable.

Tesla has had problems with replacement parts, but so far, they've made things that can be repaired.

But we won't know until there's been extensive testing. First editions always have bugs. But you get the shinies, too!

-Crissa

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

The two things are pretty opposed, though.

Serviceable parts have to be removable. That itself is a point of failure.

Especially if you want it light and compact.

-Criss

Not really. You could make a one piece car out of paper that is neither reliable or serviceable. You could make a modular vehicle out of titanium that is both serviceable and reliable. They are separate things. I would agree that the stainless steal construction might be longer-lasting but harder to fix. It could also be totally unreliable. Who knows? Same with the casted body they are using on the Y. I think it's brilliant and should make the vehicle more reliable at the expense of being able to replace individual parts, but that's just the approach Tesla is taking. They could go other ways and make a vehicle both more reliable and more serviceable.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

The two things are pretty opposed, though.

Serviceable parts have to be removable. That itself is a point of failure.

Especially if you want it light and compact.

-Criss

You can build things to be reliable and servicable. If it is truly a quote from Mr. Munro then I am very surprised. I always build for both, but I am not a business person.

 

[Crissa]

Clearly you guys just have to be right and pedantic by adding variables which have nothing to do with the statement.

Making something out of one piece of paper would make it as durable as possible for paper. If you glued those titanium pieces together it would be more durable and less serviceable.

Whatever.

-Crissa

 

[Nightf0rge]

They say they're looking at recyclability. That should mean that they'll be looking at how they can take the lithium and nickel back out of the parts... And it should also mean they're thinking ahead about what parts are replaceable.

Tesla has had problems with replacement parts, but so far, they've made things that can be repaired.

But we won't know until there's been extensive testing. First editions always have bugs. But you get the shinies, too!

-Crissa

Good point on recyclability. and In normal operation batteries are carefully maintained, probed and managed. Just wondering what would happen in the under-puncture scenario.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Clearly you guys just have to be right and pedantic by adding variables which have nothing to do with the statement.

Making something out of one piece of paper would make it as durable as possible for paper. If you glued those titanium pieces together it would be more durable and less serviceable.

Whatever.

-Crissa

My apologies. I thought you all were talking about systems not individual parts. Certainly welding two parts makes it more challenging to replace one of them. I assume the battery pack would still be bolted in but it looks like the seats are mounted to those castings. Anyway, with a single casting the labor to replace would probably be intense.

 

[Nightf0rge]

Well, a new video from Monro says the battery pack will be VERY strong a "brick". Even saying if the car is hit by a train the battery section would probably bounce off and land in the ditch. haha gotta love that guy. Says will not puncture.

17:30 on timeline.

 

[BillyGee]

I would imagine it's part of more complex array of points if he meant it the way it seems. In service I always learned that you get to pick two of the following:
-Fast
-Correctly
-Cheap

I would guess for car design it could possibly be:
-reliable
-serviceable
-cheap

I'm just spitballing, but it seems to work solidly comparing it with my car experiences. Tesla of course has picked the first 2 since their cars are expensive to purchase compared to similar vehicles.

You can always throw more money at a problem, but that doesn't seem to be the Tesla approach since they're trying to reduce end user costs.