Future battery swaps

[rr6013]

Tesla, what do you say about battery? Can I fix it? Change or replace it? Who owns the right to repair Tesla battery?

Those of us who have placed deposits with Tesla for the Cybertruck are early adopters who would support Automobile Owners' Right to Repair law. I am one. Elon may be one.

But Tesla may differ. Once that 4680 battery pack is structural, Tesla could assert that it is the car. Tesla would also assert that once that anyone other than Tesla repairs, changes or replaces structure integral to the car, it is no longer a Tesla and no longer warranteed as a Tesla.

However, established battery practices have normally and customarily excluded battery as part of an automobile and consider it a “consumable”, i.e. tires, brakes and oil, outside the provenance of manufacturer warrantee. Usual practice is that a battery warranty is included separate. Battery prior art may be excluded, need to be litigated or legislation provided for the large battery packs in automobiles. Not a lawyer, just see battery as fast moving field of technology that could be an owner friction point.

Customers like me are going to be in shock that Tesla owns the right to repair, modify and replace parts of Tesla’s that we have purchased. It would be helpful to have Tesla advise exactly what it defines its battery as from a serviceable point of view. Consumable or integral?

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[Crissa]

Tesla, what do you say about battery? Can I fix it? Change or replace it? Who owns the right to repair Tesla battery?

Tesla batteries are outlasting cars in general. And so far, while Tesla is on the wrong side of the right to repair argument, courts have consistently ruled that no, companies cannot stop people from repairing their stuff. Apple, for instance, has been forced to support third party repair.

It's not specifically Tesla we need to focus on, but the laws being enacted. Non-partisan groups such as CalPIRG and USPIRG have been working on right to repair and circular economy issues. And this is certainly something we can agree upon, left and right, that we need to be able to fix our own stuff!

-Crissa

 

[T3slaDad]

@rr6013 To add to Crissa's comment, you are allowed to repair the battery yourself, no matter how difficult or easy it may be. It's not illegal, Tesla nor the government will show up at your doorstep.

However! Tesla has made it very clear their standpoint on repairs made to the EV power train from non-certified shops/DIY/etc before. They WILL ban you from the supercharging network the moment they find out. There is no IF they find out with Tesla, there is only WHEN. Remember, the car is sending diagnostic data to Tesla all the time, so they know everything is okay. If they see something is not okay, then later magically okay and not listed in their network of repairs (it's all documented through their software), they will eventually find you and disable your car from supercharging (and have done it before to others). This is ESPECIALLY true with salvaged Tesla's, NEVER BUY A SALVAGED TESLA!!! If you ever want to see supercharging that is. Anyone who says a salvaged Tesla has supercharging enabled is a crook because they know it'll get disabled randomly in the future if not already, and that is NEVER reversible and your car just became worth a whole lot less and you're stuck with it.

Why does Tesla do this? Do they just want your money? Do they hate your guts? NO!! Batteries are very sensitive, and extremely high current situations (supercharging) are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS on cars where repairs were not properly made to a battery pack! There have been a few reports of Tesla's catching flame at SC's and they've been linked back to unauthorized EV power train repairs.

Let me ask you this: how safe would you feel if you saw someone supercharging next to you with a Tesla that has been chop shopped back together and the battery pack is hanging out? It's a dramatic example, but most bad repairs can't even be seen. So the guy next to you charging could have repaired the car himself and BOOM! You never saw it coming. The way around this is only allow certified repair shops to work on the critical components, and all others get turned off from supercharging to keep the masses (and reputation) safe.

So yeah, Tesla does care if you work on the battery yourself, but they can only keep you off their playground and can't take your car away if you do. People swpa engines and gas tanks all the time, gas cars blow up all the time, gas stations refuse service for safety violations (although it's rare, it does happen), etc.

 

[Diehard]

It's not specifically Tesla we need to focus on, but the laws being enacted

What laws would you put in place? It is hard to tell a company how to design a product without limiting innovation when they are 10 steps ahead of you.

Do you see a problem with requiring manufacturers to make their repair manual/process public? I mean what their Technicians use. Also requiring to make any custom repair tools available for sale at cost?

 

[ajdelange]

These discussions always remind me of the day my colleague "Stormin' Norman" (as we called him) came storming (his only mode of locomotion) into my office, observed me working on my watch, and announced "There's two kinds of people who take the backs off watches: jewelers and a**holes." Guess which I turned out to be?

 

[Crissa]

What laws would you put in place?

Well, requiring open, auditable service and error logs is pretty simple and what MA recently passed as law. Tesla already has this for their Chinese customers.

There are many steps to this which aren't specific to the car or technology. Allowing purchase or audit of interface software would be another. Requiring a path to certification for salvaged or repaired vehicles. Requiring parts availability to third parties.

Elon was upset when the health department didn't give him a path to reopen. Well, that's the same frustration end users have when they are told they're not allowed to certify their vehicles to work with DC charging.

-Crissa

 

[ldjessee]

Yes, I would be happy to pay Tesla 5 to 10k to re-certify a car for DC charging... and they need to separate SuperCharging from DC Charging, because while I can understand why they would not want a salvaged vehicle on their supercharger network, that should not stop me from DC charging at home or somewhere else... even if they cut it back to half the rate (from 300 to 150 for example), it would still be better than AC charging.

 

[ajdelange]

They can stop you from DC charging at an SC and probably a CHAdeMO station but they can't stop you from charging the battery. I tend to blame it all on the lawers. I think they want to be able to say "your honor, we did everything reasinable to stop plaintiff from DC fast charging but he over rode our protective measures and so came to grief".