Cybertruck battery size estimate

[ajdelange]

I did #13 before it was pointed out that these are gross - not tare. Taking that into account with the specified load I am happy with my original estimate of 175 - 200 kWh (discharge) for the tri motor.

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[Cyberpartyboy21]

I can't see any reason why the base model would weight anywhere near that weight. The weight of the frameless exoskeleton should cut back on weight significantly. Motor and battery, assuming the next gen battery will be used should not weigh that much, either. Heavy frame, engine, tranny, differential, full gas tank, emissions should weigh far more in the F150 than a CT.

 

[T3slaDad]

Do you guys think the CT will feature solid state batteries? I've been reading about it over the years and it seems like Tesla is getting pretty close (and they've announced a million mile battery coming soon a few times). It very well could be a reality in Teslas by the time the CT rolls out, and then we could see even better watts/hr!

 

[ajdelange]

A Better Route Planner now includes models for the CTs. It has the Tri Motor drawing 485 Wh/mi. Five hundred miles at that rate is 242.5 kWh.

 

[Homestead]

I recently bought rechargeable lithium flashlights from China, of course, and they come with a new battery size. Called 18650, they are bigger than a AA, smaller than a C size battery. Are these the same cells that are made in a Tesla battery? Would a Tesla battery, disassembled, run my flashlight for 500 years?

 

[Saskateam]

The 18650 is the same battery as the MS and MX. The M3 has a different size. You may be able to run your flashlight for years off of the cells in the MS or MX if you can get them out.

 

[ajdelange]

Please understand that the designation 18650 refers only to the physical dimensions of the cell (18 x 65.0 mm) and tells us nothing about the chemistry it contains. Thus 1000 18650's of one chemistry in one manufacturers product may yield considerably more or less energy that 1000 18650's of another chemistry in another manufacturers product.

 

[Delusional]

I believe that approximately 90 percent of the calculations discussed in this thread will be turned to dust after the next "battery day".
Tesla has recently purchased new battery technology (Maxwell), and a company that makes battery factory equipment (Hibar).
Musk has talked about a "Million Mile Battery".
Big changes in April.

Did they say April? Hope it's not april fools day.

 

[ajdelange]

We're all hoping for some interesting news on battery day or course but most or the calculations thrown out here are for estimated battery capacity in kWh. That depends on design range and consumption. Consumption isn't determined by battery tech but rather by motor and inverter design. What we expect from the new Tesla batteries is higher specific energy which means the same range with fewer cells, and thus lighter and less expensive, battery packs. But it will still take 250 kWh of battery to go 500 miles at 500 wH/mi.

 

[Saskateam]

I recently bought rechargeable lithium flashlights from China, of course, and they come with a new battery size. Called 18650, they are bigger than a AA, smaller than a C size battery. Are these the same cells that are made in a Tesla battery? Would a Tesla battery, disassembled, run my flashlight for 500 years?

The M3 uses the 2170 battery cells which are bigger and more energy dense. Will we see the 2170 in the CT or a new batter size only time will tell. The battery day in April is becoming more important as we go along.

 

[CostcoSamples]

Or even 5600lbs - same as the F150 as Elon claims. The difference is the payload- a much higher 3500 lbs on the CT so the GVWR goes up to class 2B range. F250 capability in the weight and price of an EV comparable to an F150? What a bargain!

Was Elon referring to the dual motor CT? What would be the weight different with tri-motor? I'm thinking another few hundred pounds for the motor plus a few hundred for the larger battery - so likely over 6,000 lbs for tri-motor config. Payload capacity is truly impressive.

Also, as you add weight you reduce acceleration and range (more rolling resistance). So it's not a linear calculation to extrapolate from dual motor battery size to tri motor battery size. I don't think 175 kwh will cut it. I'm thinking 200 kwh is a good guess.

It boggles my mind that Tesla can get 0-60 in 2.9 s with a 6,000 lb truck!

 

[Rthardison]

I think the Cybertruck will use 400-450 wh/mile. I average 230 wh/mi on my Model 3 and 330 wh/mi on my Model S. Assuming 425 wh/mi you get the following battery sizes.

Single Motor 250 mile range = 106 kWh
Dual Motor 300 mile range = 127 kWh
Tri Motor 500 mile range = 212 kWh

 

[Rthardison]

What about charging speed? I predict the Cybertruck is going to double what the Model 3 can do. That would be 500 kw. I also think the Cybertruck will be able to plug into the Semi Mega chargers.

I estimate the semi to be able to charge at 1,000 kw or 1 megawatt.

 

[ajdelange]

I think the Cybertruck will use 400-450 wh/mile. I average 230 wh/mi on my Model 3 and 330 wh/mi on my Model S. Assuming 425 wh/mi you get the following battery sizes.

Single Motor 250 mile range = 106 kWh
Dual Motor 300 mile range = 127 kWh
Tri Motor 500 mile range = 212 kWh

How do you manage to use 330 Wh/mi in an S? My X used 283 on a 630 mi drive yesterday about 600 of which was on freeway at high speed (traffic isn't so bad these days). Overall I've had 268, 263 & 277 (so far) in April, May and June. The EPA range of this vehicle is 351 miles. Multiply that by 0.270 kWh/mi and you find that the capacity of my battery is 94.8 kWh which is just about right for this car. Note that that's the discharge capacity. The charge capacity is about 100 kWh.

Given that the CT isn't going to weigh much more than the X had a better CD (though its frontal area is going to be larger and will have the same or better overall efficiency I estimate 350 Wh/mi as the EPA number. Multiplying that by EPA range of 500 gives us 175 kWh (discharge capacity) for the battery in the TriMotor with a corresponding charge capacity of right around 185 kWh or perhaps a little lower for the charge capacitu if new battery tech closes that gap between charge and discharge capacities a bit.

IF CT consumption is as bad as 400 Wh/mi then discharge C of 200 kWh would be required with a charge capacity of 215. My gut tells me that they won't be putting a battery that big in the Trimotor which really says that the lower consumption is probable. But in the last analysis this is all guessing.

What about charging speed? I predict the Cybertruck is going to double what the Model 3 can do. That would be 500 kw. I also think the Cybertruck will be able to plug into the Semi Mega chargers.

I estimate the semi to be able to charge at 1,000 kw or 1 megawatt.

It appears that the "trend" in the BEV industry is to limit on board chargers to 48 A. At 240V that limits charge rate to 11.52 kW. That would be about 30 mi/h delivered to the battery which isn't half bad but would require 17 hr for a full charge. Given that Musk keeps pushing this as being a vehicle suited to the working man and given that it is what they do in the Semi I have surmised that they might offer a second charging port either as a feature of the TriMotor or as an option which I'd guess would sell like hot cakes. This would double charging speed to 60 mi/h and allow a full recharge in around 8 hrs. This is also all guessing.

 

[Rthardison]

Here is a screen shot from a recent trip I took to Texas in February. Sorry about the focus. This was all interstate driving. I was charged to 100% to start the trip. As you can see, I averaged 320 wh/mile.

I have P90 Model S with performance tires. It has averaged this since I bought it in 2016. Have you noticed the tires on the CT? Anything but efficient. I am betting on 430 wh/mile.

How do you manage to use 330 Wh/mi in an S? My X used 283 on 630 drive yesterday about 600 of which was on freeway at high speed (traffic isn't so bad these days). a high speed freeway drive. Overall I've had 268, 263 & 277 (so far). The EPA range of this vehicle is 351 miles. Multiply that by 0.270 kWh/mi and you find that the capacity of my battery is 94.8 kWh which is just about right for this car. Note that that's the discharge capacity. The charge capacity is about 100 kWh.

Given that the CT isn't going to weigh much more than the X had a better CD (though its frontal area is going to be larger and will have the same or better overall efficiency I estimate 350 Wh/mi as the EPA number. Multiplying that by EPA range of 500 gives us 175 kWh (discharge capacity) for the battery in the TriMotor with a corresponding charge capacity of right around 185 kWh or perhaps a little lower for the charge capacitu if new battery tech closes that gap between charge and discharge capacities a bit.

IF CT consumption is as bad as 400 Wh/mi then discharge C of 200 kWh would be required with a charge capacity of 215. My gut tells me that they won't be putting a battery that big in the Trimotor which really says that the lower consumption is probable. But in the last analysis this is all guessing.



It appears that the "trend" in the BEV industry is to limit on board chargers to 48 A. At 240V that limits charge rate to 11.52 kW. That would be about 30 mi/h delivered to the battery which isn't half bad but would require 17 hr for a full charge. Given that Musk keeps pushing this as being a vehicle suited to the working man and given that it is what they do in the Semi I have surmised that they might offer a second charging port either as a feature of the TriMotor or as an option which I'd guess would sell like hot cakes. This would double charging speed to 60 mi/h and allow a full recharge in around 8 hrs. This is also all guessing.