BTC billionaire Tim Draper to Elon Musk: I'd buy the Tesla Cybertruck with Bitcoin

[Frankenblob]

I really don't get the untraceable aspect of bitcoin. Seems to me that because of the public ledger that bitcoin is eminently traceable. Every transaction is tracked and easily seen clear back to the beginning. Including the fact that Satoshi Nakamoto's bitcoins have not been used.

Now if everything is being done in bitcoin, one would just have to conceal the location/identity of the person using the wallet in order to stay anonymous. But it seems like any time a bitcoin was traded for traceable goods like at a restaurant, brick and mortar store, etc that the transaction could easily be traced because it would be done with a known wallet owner (the transaction business) and then surveillance video or personal accounts could be attained as to who the person was that initiated the transaction. Even if the transaction is remote, having a product shipped leaves a trail including a destination address.

So I guess I'd say that if bitcoin is used in a very prescribed manner that it could be used to hide one's identity in a transaction. But so can cash. And cash doesn't keep a public transaction of where it is used. On the other hand, if you don't want to get into personal direct contact with anyone in the transaction, cash doesn't work (well, unless you trust the post office and the other person in the transaction I suppose). So in that case bitcoin does have some benefits.

But I'm not an expert in either bitcoin or police / hacker / criminal procedures. So your use of bitcoin may vary.

Many "soothing lies" are: "VPN's hide you" or "crypto wallets are safe" or "goobermints are there to help" or....

Once you log into/onto the net you have been immediatley LOCATED and are KNOWN.

Some rather be "pampered like a baby through pleasureable lies" than "whapped in the yap by unpleasant truths"!

To each their own.

Advertisement

 

[TruckElectric]

I really don't get the untraceable aspect of bitcoin. Seems to me that because of the public ledger that bitcoin is eminently traceable. Every transaction is tracked and easily seen clear back to the beginning. Including the fact that Satoshi Nakamoto's bitcoins have not been used.

Now if everything is being done in bitcoin, one would just have to conceal the location/identity of the person using the wallet in order to stay anonymous. But it seems like any time a bitcoin was traded for traceable goods like at a restaurant, brick and mortar store, etc that the transaction could easily be traced because it would be done with a known wallet owner (the transaction business) and then surveillance video or personal accounts could be attained as to who the person was that initiated the transaction. Even if the transaction is remote, having a product shipped leaves a trail including a destination address.

So I guess I'd say that if bitcoin is used in a very prescribed manner that it could be used to hide one's identity in a transaction. But so can cash. And cash doesn't keep a public transaction of where it is used. On the other hand, if you don't want to get into personal direct contact with anyone in the transaction, cash doesn't work (well, unless you trust the post office and the other person in the transaction I suppose). So in that case bitcoin does have some benefits.

But I'm not an expert in either bitcoin or police / hacker / criminal procedures. So your use of bitcoin may vary.

A very important aspect I left out was the user identity, which is what I meant to emphasize and not the traceability.

I'm rusty on Bitcoin.

I could care less really about each individual's opinion on Bitcoin. If I want to get further informed it won't be from any of these posts on the subject.

 

[TruckElectric]

But so can cash.

Drug dealers

And cash doesn't keep a public transaction of where it is used.

Yes it does. Ever heard of receipts?


Iceland is completely cashless. I wonder how you pay for illegal drugs there?

 

[FutureBoy]

Drug dealers

Yes it does. Ever heard of receipts?

Iceland is completely cashless. I wonder how you pay for illegal drugs there?

Receipts are far from being publicly accessible. And even further from being centrally collected and searchable like a Bitcoin ledger. I doubt many drug dealers are giving receipts.

I would be curious how illegal transactions are made in cashless societies.

 

[Crissa]

Iceland is completely cashless. I wonder how you pay for illegal drugs there?

I would be curious how illegal transactions are made in cashless societies.

You buy something from someone else, who then gives something to the dealer, while the dealer gives you the drugs. It's like any gift card scam. Anything can become a virtual currency. Even physical things.

Honestly, Truck Electric, aside from your excess enthusiasm, this has been one of the better conversations I've had about blockchain currencies. Very open-eyed and realistic. And enthusiasm isn't bad, per se ^-^

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

I would be curious how illegal transactions are made in cashless societies.

Well I just looked it up and it says Iceland still accepts cash. I know I read back a few years ago that Iceland was going cashless but I guess it never happened.

I was reading about the Icelands financial crisis, the collapse of it's three major banks and banksters that actually went to prison.

Interesting to me anyways.

I had considered opening a bank account in Iceland at one time, this was after the recovery. Seemed the safest place at the time.

 

[TruckElectric]

excess enthusiasm

I'll try to "curb my enthusiasm" ?

 

[TruckElectric]

I would be curious how illegal transactions are made in cashless societies.

I suppose the underground will find a way. It's usually black markets.

 

[TruckElectric]

Tesla Products Could Be Bought Soon with Bitcoin: This Is How it Might Work
by Eva Fox February 10, 2021

Bitcoin Tesla

Image: Tesmanian

In the near future, Tesla intends to provide an opportunity for consumers to purchase the company's products with Bitcoin. Tesla's policy is keeping pace with the times, recognizing that digital currencies can in fact become a convenient means of payment.

n Form 10-K for the year ending December 31, 2020, filed with the SEC on February 8, Tesla announced that it has updated its investment policy to give itself more flexibility to further diversify and increase the return on its cash, and has acquired $1.5 billion in Bitcoin cryptocurrency. In addition, the company has stated that it plans to start accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment for its products in the near future.

"Moreover, we expect to begin accepting bitcoin as a form of payment for our products in the near future, subject to applicable laws and initially on a limited basis, which we may or may not liquidate upon receipt."

In recent years, Bitcoin has become an investment product, especially after its explosive growth in late 2017. Most investors use it as a store of value, calling it "digital gold,” however there are already many services that allow making payments using Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies. For this purpose, separate third-party payment systems were created.

When a client buys a product, he or she pays for it with Bitcoin at the address of a digital wallet (provided by the exchange service). After that, the owner of the wallet converts Bitcoin into fiat and transfers it to the account of the company that sold the product. Thus, payment is made using Bitcoin. For example, AT&T Inc and Microsoft Corp accept Bitcoin through BitPay, a cryptocurrency payment processor.

There are also special payment cards that convert cryptocurrencies into US dollars before a transaction. It is also a fairly straightforward payment method.

Reuters, referring to experts, states that Tesla can eliminate the middleman and create its own processing system that can be used to accept Bitcoin, and liquidate the payments whenever management chooses to. However, for Tesla, this can become an additional obstacle, since in this case, the company will have to have digital coins in its digital accounts at all times.

However, paying with cryptocurrencies is very convenient and easy once consumers try it out. Once Tesla decides on the way in which this will be possible, it will certainly open up even more opportunities for both the company and the consumer.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

EVA FOX
I'm a big fan of Tesla, as I worry about the future for my child and for future generations. Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy and I'm passionately striving for this goal. I’m tired of the daily deception from Tesla’s haters against the company, so I strive to spread true information and the latest news about Tesla.


SOURCE: TESMANIAN

 

[Frankenblob]

I read somewhere that using bitcoin is actually a waste of time because:

1) there is NO regulation, standardization or stability with it.

2) a person buys a CT with 2-3 bitcoin then 1 minute, 1 hour or the next day it crashes to 3000 and Tesla is out x amount.

3) a person goes to Home Depot with 150 worth of bitcoin, loads up his cart with stuff then when he meets the cashier said bitcoin is worth 15 bucks.

4) similarly, a person walks into Tesla with their $100,000 worth of bitcoin and an engineered "flash crash" happens and the person finds out they have $80.00 left. Conversely, said person buys a Tesla vehicle then 1 minute, hour or day later that 100 grand has shot up to 150-200 grand.

5) ....

6) and on and on and....

Bitcoin should be traded and profits taken FAST FAST FAST.

Just my 2 bitcoins worth.

 

[Crissa]

Yea, the trade value of bitcoin can fluctuate wildly, though as they have more capacity, currently not that badly. That's not to say it hasn't done that in the past.

-Crissa

 

[Frankenblob]

Yea, the trade value of bitcoin can fluctuate wildly, though as they have more capacity, currently not that badly. That's not to say it hasn't done that in the past.

-Crissa

What has currently crossed my path is that in Canada, I think, their stock exchange will open a bitcoin ETF in a week or two.

If "puts" and "calls" are allowed then the volatility will get worse and when the U.S. follows it will get wild.

NO currency has ever, unless in some form of hyperinflation, been able to go up $6/$8/$10 grand in one week ( as bitcoin has) , now couple that with puts/calls and YADA YADA ZOWIE!

 

[Crissa]

NO currency has ever, unless in some form of hyperinflation, been able to go up $6/$8/$10 grand in one week ( as bitcoin has) , now couple that with puts/calls and YADA YADA ZOWIE!

Well, the more people who 'have' a currency, the less succeptible it is to shocks - they expect it to have a certain value, and resist those shocks by holding it when it goes down.

When Brazil had inflation woes that went on for decades, inflation was 'expected' and so it 'happened' no matter what the government did. So they made a parallel currency, and weened people off that expectation.

Currencies are weird, but once you realize that their value is what we agree upon, it makes more sense that they mostly change as we agree they change.

-Crissa