Use Cybertruck as stationary power source.

[BenH]

Per article below, Tesla will void warranty if use as stationary power source. I wonder if this will apply to Cybertruck. I plan to use Cybertruck as backup generator in case of power outage.

https://electrek.co/2021/02/23/tesl...wer-your-home-with-electric-car-battery-pack/

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[Crissa]

Per article below, Tesla will void warranty if use as stationary power source.

They cannot do that.

Legally, they have to prove any damage came from the specific instance of use, they can't just ban a use.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

They cannot do that.

Legally, they have to prove any damage came from the specific instance of use, they can't just ban a use.

-Crissa

If it is writing with the warranty why can’t they do it? @Crissa they showed the warranty. It was pretty clear. Also, the guy in question wrote clearly what he did and I am not at all surprised they would void the warranty after that.

 

[Crissa]

If it is writing with the warranty why can’t they do it?

That's not how warranties work.

They have to prove the third-party equipment caused the specific failure. They can't just put a line in the warranty against it.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance

It's in there under third-party and post-consumer equipment. It's there because many warranties in the past excluded the exact behavior the equipment would be bought to be used for.

For instance, my Zero has a 10a DC-DC converter, so as long as my draw is below 120W, they can't say I did something that would break it by using 100W.

-Crissa

 

[Vrakpant]

That's not how warranties work.

They have to prove the third-party equipment caused the specific failure. They can't just put a line in the warranty against it.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance

It's in there under third-party and post-consumer equipment. It's there because many warranties in the past excluded the exact behavior the equipment would be bought to be used for.

For instance, my Zero has a 10a DC-DC converter, so as long as my draw is below 120W, they can't say I did something that would break it by using 100W.

-Crissa

TEN 328 - Hyundai Ioniq 5 Unveiled, Tesla Increases LFP Production, Amazon Goes Electric in India - YouTube

Timestamp 15:00

 

[Crissa]

Timestamp 15:00

...Nikki isn't a lawyer.

Neither am I, but I am citing a law. Now, this isn't to say that an accessory power supply won't flatten or shorten your accessory battery. That is almost a given for someone running a refrigerator off of it! A fridge isn't 100W, now is it?

-Crissa

 

[LoPro]

Current Teslas aside, it would be very forward thinking of Tesla to make it easily available to use such a huge battery (tri-motor CT) as an emergency battery for the home it’s just parked outside. It would have use even when you’re not out driving in it, and the total value would be even greater.

 

[kev12345]

so they're going to provide electrical outlets in the bed to be used as a stationary power source but if you use it your warranty is toast? I think not.

 

[Crissa]

so they're going to provide electrical outlets in the bed to be used as a stationary power source but if you use it your warranty is toast? I think not.

No current Tesla cars have such outlets. It's a modification.

-Crissa

 

[Frankenblob]

Steve Lehto of "Lehtos Law" ( youtube ) did a blurb on this - "Tesla: Void warranty if you Power your House w/the car."

As any Lawyer will argue the "wording" of anything, it would be best to get an email or letter from them stating it is OK or not.

I do understand it can be argued six ways to Sunday, i.e. so if one plugs an adapter into their cigarette lighter wherein they can charge or use things with 120 output, does it mean they can only use the adapter when the vehicle is moving -hence then it (referring to vehicle I think) is "not stationary" and when they park or stop do they have to unplug it while "stationary"?

Now when they offer the CT and its outlets we will have to see what the warranty/usage parameters are.

 

[audi2tesla]

so they're going to provide electrical outlets in the bed to be used as a stationary power source but if you use it your warranty is toast? I think not.

Warranty may be different for cybertruck because of this.

 

[carpedatum]

I feel like this thread has its wires crossed

Keeping in mind that my information is from internet rumor mills, I understand that Cybertruck is likely to come with at least one AC outlet in the bed. Some rumors suggest that it will have a 240V outlet - I can't imagine that being provided without a 120V outlet as well, in the US.

Having AC outlets is pretty much a necessity in the pickup truck market, and it would be particularly insane to have to carry a gasoline generator to the job site in the back of a Cybertruck when you can get a Ford that can deliver 7.2KW directly. My barely-a-truck Honda Ridgeline can deliver 400W at 120VAC. Many current-gen pickups can deliver a lot more. Competition demands AC power outlets in trucks.

Consequently I don't believe the CT's warrantee would attempt to prohibit using it as a "stationary power source". I agree with Crissa anyway. In the US, people offering warrantees must at least assert that the operator's behavior caused the problem if they want to say the warranty does not apply.

However, if Tesla wanted to assert that someone using the car's 12V accessory battery as a source for an aftermarket inverter did in fact cause problems with the car, I think they are well within their rights to do so. The only reason this works for a little while is that the car's firmware will make an effort to keep the 12V charged from the main pack, but none of those bits are designed to handle this load scenario. If they ware, the inverter would have been provided by Tesla and there'd be an AC outlet on the car. Just because you can find the battery terminals meant to support a jump-start doesn't mean you can use them for something entirely different, without breaking anything. In this case, the customer obviously broke the car. What the warranty says or does not say is moot.

Cybertruck will have at least one proper AC outlet. It will be designed to support a certain load and a breaker will trip if the customer exceeds that load. The truck's firmware will know all about it and I'm sure there will be cool details on the center display about it. Whether it makes any sense to connect that to anyone's home is another matter. I am reasonably certain that handling the myriad implications of supporting that use-case are not on Tesla's near-term radar. If they don't say you should do that, then nobody should be attempting to bodge together a way to do it.

But you can probably connect it to an extension cord or a power strip and run a few loads that are consistent with its intended application.

 

[LoPro]

I’m clearly no electrical engineer but I was thinking more along the lines of a new accompanying wallcharger which turns around to «suck» power from the CT when the home supply drops off. A more complicated home installation for sure, but the CT would also perhaps need some important changes to the inboard inverter and firmware (or piggyback on the existing outlet electronics in the bed). I’m pretty sure I saw some company presenting that kind of a “2-way” wallcharger. I’m sure “2-way” chargers will be standard practice at some point considering the increasingly powerful EV batteries just sitting there while extreme weather takes out the power of homes. Might even get cheaper home insurance with that kind of setup (especially in colder climates).

EDIT: It was Nissan who already in 2016 delivered EVs with charge ports capable of V2G (vehicle to grid).

 

[carpedatum]

I believe those solutions will come along. However, it is remarkably complicated. Certain difficult problems must be solved that involve high voltage, lots of current, and safety.

- Power from an EV can never leave the home and get onto the grid, just the same way power from a home generator can never be allowed onto the grid. There is potentially a very complex model under which that isn't true, but we have a long way to go with our grid before that.
- To you power your whole home from an EV, you'd need a circuit capable of supplying all that energy. Basically wires as fat as the ones that go IN to your power meter, and an EV capable of delivering that kind of current to something other than its drive unit.
- To power less than your whole home from an EV, you'd need a way to connect just certain circuits, the total max consumption of which doesn't exceed what the EV and related wiring can safely deliver.

Some of those issues are resolved, for generators, with an automatic transfer switch and, where the generator isn't meant to be whole-home, as sub panel containing breakers that deliver energy to select circuits. I believe we are at arms-length from having such an apparatus that could sum that up, and also communicate safely with an EV, to make all the right stuff happen at the right time.

But in the meantime, a CT with outlets could go a long way in the right direction!

(I don't practice electrical engineering much these days, but I do have the degree)

 

[BenH]

I believe those solutions will come along. However, it is remarkably complicated. Certain difficult problems must be solved that involve high voltage, lots of current, and safety.

- Power from an EV can never leave the home and get onto the grid, just the same way power from a home generator can never be allowed onto the grid. There is potentially a very complex model under which that isn't true, but we have a long way to go with our grid before that.
- To you power your whole home from an EV, you'd need a circuit capable of supplying all that energy. Basically wires as fat as the ones that go IN to your power meter, and an EV capable of delivering that kind of current to something other than its drive unit.
- To power less than your whole home from an EV, you'd need a way to connect just certain circuits, the total max consumption of which doesn't exceed what the EV and related wiring can safely deliver.

Some of those issues are resolved, for generators, with an automatic transfer switch and, where the generator isn't meant to be whole-home, as sub panel containing breakers that deliver energy to select circuits. I believe we are at arms-length from having such an apparatus that could sum that up, and also communicate safely with an EV, to make all the right stuff happen at the right time.

But in the meantime, a CT with outlets could go a long way in the right direction!

(I don't practice electrical engineering much these days, but I do have the degree)

I am not going to power up the whole house. I plan to install a transfer panel connect to gas furnace, sump bump, fridge, wifi router and 1 or 2 outlets. Perhaps Tesla can provide list of Tesla certified transfer panel. Nature gas generator or gasoline generator are noisy and require yearly maintenance.