Cybertruck: The Most Bang for Your Buck Among Current and Upcoming EVs

[azjohn]

This was the 1st thing that came to mind once they announced the price at the reveal

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[Faffle]

Actually, this chart leaves out an upcoming car that seems to be off everyones radar. The Aptera 3. coming spring 2021 with up to 1000 miles of range and onboard solar charging which seems to average about 20-30 miles of charge per day. and the 1000 mile version starts at a little over $40k. cheaper versions with less range will cost somewhere in the mid $20k after tax incentives.

check out the aptera website

Side view looks like a woman's shoe! And yet i like it

 

[CyberFrontier]

here is an updated graph for the battery vs. range of the aptera. nothing comes close.

 

[CyberFrontier]

From what i've seen, it's a little small for me to believe i'll be comfortable in it. But my real concern is the front wheels, I suspect the width from each wheel will be similar to the width of a car, but I'm going to assume the first customers are going to either hit the wheels off curbs or at least have a lot of close calls. Also, if one of those wheels hits something like a car while driving, as soon as the wheel housing comes off, that will be a ton of body damage. I would be very interested to see how this vehicle handles during a crash test, I would suspect that it would do poorly.

it is true, you have made a lot of assumptions.

 

[CyberFrontier]

the laws of macro physics do not favor this sized vehicle in our current situation regarding ANY type of collision...the mpg for a "smart car" are terrible not to mention it gives one a false sense of security because it's an enclosed vehicle...

I keep hearing this same thing over and over again. yes, smaller cars aren't favored in a crash. and this is the dilemma we are in, isn't it? we keep buying larger and larger vehicles to have higher personal safety, and all the while don't look far enough into the future to see that the emissions due to consuming ever more materials is what will ultimately kill us. do we let our egos drive us, or do we have the sensibility to go with efficiency to have a chance of saving this beautiful planet?

 

[Crissa]

...we keep buying larger and larger vehicles to have higher personal safety, and all the while don't look far enough into the future to see...

...And just straight up kill us as pedestrians the moment we have to cross a crowded parking lot. Or get hit with a vehicle larger than our own.

Tho at least Tesla is constantly upping the crsh-avoidance stuff.

-Crissa

 

[hobbit11]

I keep hearing this same thing over and over again. yes, smaller cars aren't favored in a crash. and this is the dilemma we are in, isn't it? we keep buying larger and larger vehicles to have higher personal safety, and all the while don't look far enough into the future to see that the emissions due to consuming ever more materials is what will ultimately kill us. do we let our egos drive us, or do we have the sensibility to go with efficiency to have a chance of saving this beautiful planet?

understand but if a smart car and my new CT were in a collision, i'm betting on my CT

 

[CyberMoose]

it is true, you have made a lot of assumptions.

An assumption is merely something that someone is saying without proof. I only claim something as my assumption, so people don't try to argue as if I had stated things as fact. However, I think it's pretty clear that this vehicle would probably be totaled much more easily than almost any other vehicle on the road.

Now I never said it was a bad design, I was just making observations. Also I try not to believe the claims of a company before they have at least one vehicle vehicle that is available to buy.

we keep buying larger and larger vehicles to have higher personal safety, and all the while don't look far enough into the future to see that the emissions due to consuming ever more materials is what will ultimately kill us. do we let our egos drive us, or do we have the sensibility to go with efficiency to have a chance of saving this beautiful planet?

I completely agree that the emissions that go into making the vehicle should be included, but at the same time we also need to look at the life of the vehicle. If you look at old vehicles, even the high quality ones, body damage, rust, and engine problems are probably the biggest reasons for junking a vehicle or selling it for a newer vehicle. Since we are on a Cybertruck forum, that's the only vehicle i'm really going to compare. I would certainly argue that if you put 100 of Apteras and 100 Cybertrucks in the same driving conditions with equal chances for accidents and body damage. There are going to be a lot more of those 100 Cybertrucks in 50 years than the Apteras. So unless the Aptera requires like 30-40% of the emissions of a Cybertruck to build, then it's probably about equal in the long run. Also that would also assume that an Aptera is a persons only vehicle, since if you have a second vehicle for your family or for work, then that would require more emissions per individual.

 

[Crissa]

So unless the Aptera requires like 30-40% of the emissions of a Cybertruck to build, then it's probably about equal in the long run. Also that would also assume that an Aptera is a persons only vehicle, since if you have a second vehicle for your family or for work, then that would require more emissions per individual.

The Aptera almost certainly will use less material by a huge margin. It will also use a fraction of the energy. Just like my Zero does.

The weight estimates alone have the Cybertruck at 5 to 6 times the weight of the Aptera. Weight is a stand-in for manufacturerer carbon impact of the same class of product.

They're estimating highway energy use I will have trouble matching while fully tucked. Which makes sense, bikes aren't very aerodynamic.

-Crissa

 

[CyberFrontier]

An assumption is merely something that someone is saying without proof. I only claim something as my assumption, so people don't try to argue as if I had stated things as fact. However, I think it's pretty clear that this vehicle would probably be totaled much more easily than almost any other vehicle on the road.

Now I never said it was a bad design, I was just making observations. Also I try not to believe the claims of a company before they have at least one vehicle vehicle that is available to buy.

I completely agree that the emissions that go into making the vehicle should be included, but at the same time we also need to look at the life of the vehicle. If you look at old vehicles, even the high quality ones, body damage, rust, and engine problems are probably the biggest reasons for junking a vehicle or selling it for a newer vehicle. Since we are on a Cybertruck forum, that's the only vehicle i'm really going to compare. I would certainly argue that if you put 100 of Apteras and 100 Cybertrucks in the same driving conditions with equal chances for accidents and body damage. There are going to be a lot more of those 100 Cybertrucks in 50 years than the Apteras. So unless the Aptera requires like 30-40% of the emissions of a Cybertruck to build, then it's probably about equal in the long run. Also that would also assume that an Aptera is a persons only vehicle, since if you have a second vehicle for your family or for work, then that would require more emissions per individual.

Aptera has done crash analysis, way back about a decade ago on this vehicle, and it has an incredibly high degree of safety. they are aiming for Tesla like safety. I would politely ask that if you are going to make assumptions, that you do some research on it first. many of the things you have stated tell me you haven't done this. The info is out there. While they don't have vehicles available for purchase yet, like I said, they already made this car and had several prototypes built and tested back in the day, and they are building on that knowledge to make it even better and stronger.

like the cybertruck, this vehicle will be rust proof as well, and should have a similar degree of body strength due to it being made of composite materials. I actually think you might be interested in it if you checked it out for yourself, considering you seem to be interested in the same things I am interested it. longevity, body strength, emissions, ect. probably the biggest difference between this and the Cybertruck over the lifetime of the vehicle, is the cybertruck will continue to need charging infrastructure, and the Aptera wont. a true off grid vehicle that requires no extra infrastructure. The best part about having adequate solar for charging is that it will do a great job at keeping the battery cycle life super low, so the battery will possibly last much, much longer than the Cybertruck, even if cybertruck has a million mile battery. Between myself and my partner, we may end up with one of each, since I really need a truck for what I do for work, and she will probably want to have a vehicle to drive while I am not home. I plan on never buying another vehicle after my next purchase, and I think both the cybertruck and aptera will be good for that.

 

[Crissa]

PS, it's okay to not like big or small vehicles. They do different things.

But the more smaller ones that are out there, the safer it is for big and small. They take up less room on the highway, too. One Cybertruck kinda opaque, but easier to see around than a whole road of Rivians and F-150 bricks.

And if they hit our Cybertruck, which they will because they won't be as safe as either an Aptera or a Tesla, wouldn't you rather they be more, small vehicles? ^-^

-Crissa

 

[CyberMoose]

I never questioned the safety of the vehicle. All Teslas are very safe, beyond that of traditional cars, but that doesn't mean that the vehicle itself will survive a crash, even some seemingly small collisions have resulted in Teslas or other makes being totaled. This vehicle won't be favored in a collision, once again i'm not questioning the safety of the driver, but the vehicle could be totalled far more easily than the Cybertruck. As for independance from the grid, I have that on my house, with enough solar power and battery capacity that I haven't been reliant on the grid since I got it installed last year. I only expect solar panels to become more and more common, so the only benefit would be not needing to plug it in. I don't mind plugging in my truck but I do also plan to get the solar cover if it is offered, but again, plugging in doesn't take more than like 15 seconds. You are saying that it won't need a charging infrastructure but that's definitely not accurate unless someone plans to only use this vehicle for commuting to and from work and small errands without leaving the city. If you want to go visit family far away or even just drive a long commute, you will still need to charge.

Also I was really just stating reasons why I wouldn't want this vehicle and one of the biggest reasons that I wouldn't like this vehicle personally is I have no use for a 2 seater, small vehicle, with minimal storage capacity. I like camping, roadtrips with friends, taking my niece and nephew out to do fun things that my sister won't take them to do. The only thing that I wouldn't need more than 2 seats for is going to and from work, which I mostly do on my motorcycle anyway and plan to get an electric motorcycle When I get my truck.

I'm not saying that there is no market for this vehicle. I see lots of high end sports cars that I would never buy but other people just like driving them around. Personally If I was going to buy a sports car it would be the Roadster, not because it's Tesla, but because I can still have more than 2 people in it at a time.

 

[Crissa]

Aptera do plan for their second vehicle to be a four-door, or at least a five-seater.

An yay on the motorcycle. Same here. I would love a little car - I don't need oomph - but my spouse wants more utility in our one allowed (her rules) non-bike.

-Crissa

 

[Ryan95738]

here is an updated graph for the battery vs. range of the aptera. nothing comes close.

I thought Tesla's had 100 kW??

 

[Crissa]

I thought Tesla's had 100 kW??

Only some of the Model S do. Batteries are heavy.

-Crissa