Europe is making faster cars and better batteries than Tesla

[CappyJax]

Nikola isn't aiming for fuel cell passenger cars, though.

-Crissa

The Badger is a fuel cell/battery passenger truck.

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[Luke42]

Interesting that Nikola is going to use GM batteries and HFC system meaning they essentially have nothing to offer. What innovation is coming from Nikola?

Nikola takes the risk.

GM gets paid either way, but gets a smaller share of the profits if the truck is a success.

Owning any part of the value chain can be a business success by most definitions. [shrug]

 

[Crissa]

No, it isn't. Low pressure hydrogen has a very low volumetric density. High pressure hydrogen has a low gravimetric density. You either lose physical space or weight capacity.

...Which doesn't matter so much to static storage or ships, was my point.

And all these complaints about hydrogen exploding... You do know we have pipelines and trucks of even more damaging and flame-spreading chemicals that already traverse the countryside, right?

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

The Badger is a fuel cell/battery passenger truck.

A truck is not a passenger. It's a cargo vehicle. A small one, but one none the less. And a hybrid bridge which would alleviate the concerns of towing to be able to on-board extra energy for a trip, which still having the battery for the majority of short hops.

It's a good idea, and a wonder why none of the other hydrogen players aimed for it. We have hybrid trains, for crying out loud.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

A truck is not a passenger. It's a cargo vehicle. A small one, but one none the less. And a hybrid bridge which would alleviate the concerns of towing to be able to on-board extra energy for a trip, which still having the battery for the majority of short hops.

It's a good idea, and a wonder why none of the other hydrogen players aimed for it. We have hybrid trains, for crying out loud.

-Crissa

Yes, a hybrid bridge that requires developing a massive infrastructure costing trillions of dollars to fill the gap between a BEV that will go 500 miles, and a hybrid HFC/BEV that will go 600 miles until battery technology fills the gap for that extra 100 miles.

 

[Crissa]

Yes, a hybrid bridge that requires developing a massive infrastructure costing trillions of dollars to fill the gap between a BEV that will go 500 miles, and a hybrid HFC/BEV that will go 600 miles until battery technology fills the gap for that extra 100 miles.

If they have the big trucks, little trucks will be able to use it.

Battery technology isn't within 100 miles yet.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

If they have the big trucks, little trucks will be able to use it.

Battery technology isn't within 100 miles yet.

-Crissa

So, are you saying that Tesla is lying about their claim that the CyberTruck can provide 500 miles of range?

 

[Crissa]

So, are you saying that Tesla is lying about their claim that the CyberTruck can provide 500 miles of range?

I don't think unladen range is all that and a bag of chips, no.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

I don't think unladen range is all that and a bag of chips, no.

-Crissa

Ok, so, towing range will be 300 and 250. So now the gap is 50 miles apart.

Do you have an actual argument here? You make claims like "Battery technology isn't within 100 miles yet." But then you don't explain why you believe this and offer zero evidence to back it up.

 

[Crissa]

Ok, so, towing range will be 300 and 250. So now the gap is 50 miles apart.

Do you have an actual argument here? You make claims like "Battery technology isn't within 100 miles yet." But then you don't explain why you believe this and offer zero evidence to back it up.

Since neither exists yet, you're just trolling for 'what is is'.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

Since neither exists yet, you're just trolling for 'what is is'.

-Crissa

One of them does indeed exist.

 

[Crissa]

One of them does indeed exist.

That's your argument?

Supposedly there's a prototype of the Nikola Semi, so I guess now it's you who's lying?

9-9

Neither exists yet as a tested range. We know the relative weight of different storage (a Model 3 battery pack has 1/8th a kwh to kg while a Mirai has a fuel cell and tank that stores 1.14 kwh to kg) and a bigger tank like on a truck would be even better because square-cubed law applies to tanks but not batteries.

Just stop, please.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

That's your argument?

Supposedly there's a prototype of the Nikola Semi, so I guess now it's you who's lying?

9-9

Neither exists yet as a tested range. We know the relative weight of different storage (a Model 3 battery pack has 1/8th a kwh to kg while a Mirai has a fuel cell and tank that stores 1.14 kwh to kg) and a bigger tank like on a truck would be even better because square-cubed law applies to tanks but not batteries.

Just stop, please.

-Crissa

I love how you cherry pick the data and ignore the efficiency of an electric motor (90%), to a HFC (Maybe 50%). And you ignore the fact that you can charge that battery almost anywhere, and you can fill up hydrogen almost nowhere. Or that Tesla have hundreds of thousands of BEV's on the road, and Nikola doesn't have a single vehicle on the road. BTW, Nikola has never shown anyone that their HFC actually works.

I'll stop now.

 

[Crissa]

I love how you cherry pick the data ...

...And you provide another distraction instead of actually talking about the topic. You switch between sniping and gish-gallop and it's tiresome.

Yes, efficiency matters. So okay, the tanks hold only 6x more exploitable energy per kg than batteries, and not 12x.

-Crissa

PS: Do I need to point out that the fuel cell isn't the motor, they both have an electric motor, so it would be 90% times 50% not 50% vs 90%?

 

[CappyJax]

...And you provide another distraction instead of actually talking about the topic. You switch between sniping and gish-gallop and it's tiresome.

Yes, efficiency matters. So okay, the tanks hold only 6x more exploitable energy per kg than batteries, and not 12x.

-Crissa

PS: Do I need to point out that the fuel cell isn't the motor, they both have an electric motor, so it would be 90% times 50% not 50% vs 90%?

Take your own advice.