Tesla Vehicle Questions, Answered

[VolklKatana]

I’ve got a question, I don’t think I’ve seen this on the thread yet.... when you get a Tesla what charge state does it come with? Do they charge it up for you before you go or does it come at like 20% charge like some new electronics come....

i bought mine from a non-Tesla dealership and that experience was less than optimal. Showed up for test drive and only had 25 miles of range left on it. went back, had them plug in immediately and barely had enough to make it to the supercharger 45 miles away. Nothing like getting range anxiety right out of the gate!

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[Ro2Bcont]

i bought mine from a non-Tesla dealership and that experience was less than optimal. Showed up for test drive and only had 25 miles of range left on it. went back, had them plug in immediately and barely had enough to make it to the supercharger 45 miles away. Nothing like getting range anxiety right out of the gate!

Yeah I currently have a old Nissan Leaf which gets About 85 miles on a full charge on a good day, range anxiety is a real thing, I also wanted to know how the state of the battery was before I bought the used car which was hard to do when it can charged with only like 20%.... they had a 240 volt charger at that dealership which they charged it while I was looking at the paper work but I didn’t attempt to drive it home because I lived 3 hours away and with that little range an ICEd or OOS charger would have left me stranded. So range is big for me... pretty much the most important thing for me when looking at a tesla

 

[TyPope]

Question for the group... Background info: Bought a MY for my wife. I sold my F350 and currently drive an older Prius... Impatient person, I am. So, looking at buying a 2016 Model Y 85D... IF I wanted to add FSD to the car, what's the best way to do that?
I could use it as a bargaining chip to try to get the dealer to pay for a chunk of it. I could, after negotiating... (I forgot how much I don't like this part), ask them to add $8k to the price so I can finance the FSD with the car. Or, I could purchase FSD later.
Now, spare me the "it isn't worth it" lectures. I just want to know what the best path would be. I'm going to look at it tomorrow.
Last bit of info: my plan is to either sell or trade the MS when my number is called.

Thanks, guys.

 

[VolklKatana]

Question for the group... Background info: Bought a MY for my wife. I sold my F350 and currently drive an older Prius... Impatient person, I am. So, looking at buying a 2016 Model Y 85D... IF I wanted to add FSD to the car, what's the best way to do that?
I could use it as a bargaining chip to try to get the dealer to pay for a chunk of it. I could, after negotiating... (I forgot how much I don't like this part), ask them to add $8k to the price so I can finance the FSD with the car. Or, I could purchase FSD later.
Now, spare me the "it isn't worth it" lectures. I just want to know what the best path would be. I'm going to look at it tomorrow.
Last bit of info: my plan is to either sell or trade the MS when my number is called.

Thanks, guys.

I would use the bargaining chip for sure but I think you might run into issues with the finance option. The dealer (non Tesla I assume? )won't be able to add that FSD option for you I less they register the vehicle in a Tesla app. And then you would need to register it. Each step there is a 72 hr process. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're going to have a hard time getting that 8k into an account that you can then use to purchase the FSD option yourself. Unless the dealer is able to get glcreative, I'm afraid that them registering it in the app may be the only option if you want to finance it .(though leaving the dealer hoops to jump through is not something I'd be comfortable with personally)

 

[isync]

Tesla website says the V3 supercharger will provide up to 1000mph of charging rate, but we all know when the battery is full, or close to full, that rate of charge will become very low. So what is the happy medium? Charging rate (therefore range) vs. wait time.

Also, the charging rate presents by 1000mph is very misleading, too. if CT has larger battery capacity, the same KW charging rate will certainly not going to get CT to 1000mph rate. <=== agree /not agree???

Anyhow, with your experience, if you start the charge at around 20%, what do you expect 15 min later? Same question for the more common V2 supercharger. Thanks,

 

[ajdelange]

The charging rate you will realize will depend on many factors. Starting SoC of your battery is one of them but so is your battery's temperature (if you have the Nav system on and the car senses that you are approaching a super charger it will condition the battery temperature to be optimum at the time of arrival) and what's going on at the charging station. Here are the histories for the 5 charges I've done on my Raven X:

As you can see charging is most rapid when the SoC is below 30 to 40% at onset. The thing I found most interesting in these curves was that early on the rate of charge was appreciably greater (by 20 -25 kW) than the rated rate of the station as given on plug share. But note that this was at stations that were not occupied (I was the only car there). At busy Paramus, NJ, the initial charge rate was at the stations rated 120 kW. The other general message from these charges is that the rate slows to about 2/3 of the station rating once SoC passes 40% though it may start sooner than that (as low as 25%). Note also that the charger will taper the rate further as the end of the charge (determined by what you set as the desired charge limit) is reached.

Of course you must understand that these example are just that, examples and that you can't draw global conclusions from them. Nor can you predict exactly what charging profile you will experience when you pull into a station except that if it is very full it is going to take longer than if it is empty or nearly so.

These example data and the charging instructions Tesla gives make it clear that if you want to spend minimum time with a charging hose stuck in your car you don't charge above 40%. This, of course, means more frequent stops so you must consider in making your plans that there is some overhead time involved with a stop. How far is it off the freeway? Is it well hidden behind some warehouse in the shopping center (some are). Is your SO likely to wander off to an adjacent antique shop?

With a little experience I expect you will find that charging stops aren't much different from fueling stop in an ICE vehicle. "We're getting a bit low. Should we stop at Paramus or see if we can make it to Newburg". "Are you sure we have enough for Newburg? I really like that little ___ store there. "Yea, but I gotta pee." is usually how the conversation goes.


Tip: try not to think of SoC in terms of miles. That's because the miles per % SoC can vary appreciably depending on whether the road is wet, you have a tailwind, or the upcoming terrain is hilly. Have an idea as to what SoC you want at your next stop and determine how to charge based on that.

Play with ABRP.

Also, the charging rate presents by 1000mph is very misleading, too. if CT has larger battery capacity, the same KW charging rate will certainly not going to get CT to 1000mph rate. <=== agree /not agree???

Disagree. That's one of the reasons its better to not think of SoC in miles. A 140 kW charging rate will load 140 kW in an hour. If I am burning 400 Wh/mi that rate will be equivalent to 140/.4 = 350 miles added per hour but if I am burning 500 then it is only equivalent to 280. Note that this has nothing to do with the size of the battery. Of course it is true that a car with a bigger battery pack will weigh somewhat more and hence burn more Wh/mi but the increase is not going to be that much because battery weight is only part of the vehicle weight and because the mass related loading in a vehicle with regen is less, relative to the whole, than in an ICE vehicle. This a 33% increase in battery weight might only translate to a 5% increase in Wh/mi.

 

[Blue Steel]

Tesla website says the V3 supercharger will provide up to 1000mph of charging rate, but we all know when the battery is full, or close to full, that rate of charge will become very low. So what is the happy medium? Charging rate (therefore range) vs. wait time.

I’ve never road tripped in a Tesla, but I have watched a lot of Out-Of-Spec-Motoring road trip videos, so clearly I’m an expert.

The “happy medium” or break over point where it makes more sense to unplug and drive seems to be the point where you will be able to arrive at the next supercharger for optimal charging. Usually that is when you will arrive at the next charger at about a 10% state of charge. That will be the way to optimize your time. Typically you’ll charge up to about 60 to 80% to hit the next charger optimally.

So the bigger the battery the longer you can go before dropping to 10% charge. On a road trip I expect tri-motor trucks will often be able to skip Superchargers that dual-motor trucks have to stop at.

 

[Blue Steel]

These example data and the charging instructions Tesla gives make it clear that if you want to spend minimum time with a charging hose stuck in your car you don't charge above 40%. This, of course, means more frequent stops so you must consider in making your plans that there is some overhead time involved with a stop. How far is it off the freeway? Is it well hidden behind some warehouse in the shopping center (some are). Is your SO likely to wander off to an adjacent antique shop?

With a little experience I expect you will find that charging stops aren't much different from fueling stop in an ICE vehicle. "We're getting a bit low. Should we stop at Paramus or see if we can make it to Newburg". "Are you sure we have enough for Newburg? I really like that little ___ store there. "Yea, but I gotta pee." is usually how the conversation goes.

So much agree with this. I’ve been road tripping ICE style for nearly 30 years. And a decade more of riding along with my dad while ICE road tripping. My brain has been programmed to think a certain way for these trips. While planning for an upcoming trip I’m doing so much mental math without even thinking about it. So many calculations and accounting for my passengers and the terrain, etc. I’m drawing on decades of experience. There’s muscle memory there.

Road tripping in an EV will take some reprogramming. Personally I’m looking forward to it. It’s a new adventure.

 

[ajdelange]

The “happy medium” or break over point where it makes more sense to unplug and drive seems to be the point where you will be able to arrive at the next supercharger for optimal charging. Usually that is when you will arrive at the next charger at about a 10% state of charge. That will be the way to optimize your time. Typically you’ll charge up to about 60 to 80% to hit the next charger optimally.

Let me emphasize this point. it is what I was referring to in the penultimate paragraph of my last post. Tesla give you tools for planning. One of them is a graph that shows estimated SoC at destination based on your recent driving history (last 5, 15 or 30 mi). You can watch this as you are charging or if you aren't watching the car will post (or send to your phone if you are in the coffee shop) as message to the effect that you are sufficiently charged to continue your trip. If you don't happen to agree then stick around for a little longer. If you do, pull the plug and go.

So the bigger the battery the longer you can go before dropping to 10% charge. On a road trip I expect tri-motor trucks will often be able to skip Superchargers that dual-motor trucks have to stop at.

Well a Trimotor is rated 500 mi EPA and so has a practical usable range of about 375 mi whereas a 300 mi rated truck would have a useable range of about 225. The larger truck has longer range. That's one of the things you pay for. A big misconception is that it takes longer to charge the truck with the bigger battery. That's not true to the extent people think. The heavier truck may consume 5% more energy per mile. Thus if it takes half an hour to replace 200 miles in the smaller it would take half an hour plus one and a half minutes to replace them in the larger. Of course if you are taking advantage of the longer range capabilities of the larger vehicle and are replacing 300 miles then you will be charging about 47 minutes.

 

[ajdelange]

My brain has been programmed to think a certain way for these trips. While planning for an upcoming trip I’m doing so much mental math without even thinking about it. So many calculations and accounting for my passengers and the terrain, etc. I’m drawing on decades of experience. There’s muscle memory there.

Road tripping in an EV will take some reprogramming. Personally I’m looking forward to it. It’s a new adventure.

It really won't take much reprogramming at all once you get the hang of it. I think perhaps the main thing may be that with ICE we use miles per gallon whereas in a BEV we use Watthours per mile.

 

[VI Tesla]

Having just gone through this with my S, I have these answers readily available...

It comes with its own power cable that fits a NEMA 1450 (dryer outlet)plug and a couple of adapters, one that can plug into any wall outlet that would give you 4 miles of charge per hour, and a J1772 adapter which many destination chargers use. (charge rate varies by circuit amperage and wire gauge) The cable is 18' long.

If you want to install a charger at your house, there are many options out there and you do not need to use the Tesla option. I just had a JuiceBox 40 delivered today, which runs on a 50A dedicated circuit and has a 25' cable. I installed the circuit and charger myself as I am relatively handy and knew how to wire a breaker. If you dont know how to do it, HIRE SOMEONE, you can die messing around in a breaker box... I went with that charger because i get a $250 rebate from my utility company and a $300 federal tax credit for purchasing one that is Energy Star certified, (the Tesla wall chargers are not). Also, my thought was that if/when EVs catch on, it would be nice to plug in a family/friends vehicle at my house when visiting.

I think that addressed your question, happy to answer any other questions I can!

Actually they no longer come with the NEMA connector only regular 110V connector, you have to now purchase the NEMA adapters seperately dpeneding on the outlet you have installed. At least that was our experience with our model 3 purchase directly from Tesla.

 

[isync]

@ajdelange: One of your record started at about 45% and was able to sustain a charging rate above 100kwh all to way to SoC close to 60%. so, do you think if you disconnect/reconnect charger when you see the rate comes down (like those red curve at around 35% SoC, for example), will you be able to shorten the charging time? Worth doing it all the time?

 

[ajdelange]

I don't know the answer to that question but I'm guessing that it wouldn't change things much. The rates you get are the result of a negotiation between car and charger. I have started a SC charging session only to terminate it two minutes later and resume it in another stall. That was with my older car and so I no longer have the records but I doubt that it would change anything. The actual charge rate is determined by what the car wants as modified by what the charger can give. What the car wants is to charge your battery in a way that is not detrimental to your battery. I believe it would see through your trick and simply resume the same profile.

That particular profile clearly doesn't look like the others. The car is taking on power at a higher rate than it normally does at SoC levels this high. I suspect this is because the car takes into account that this was clearly a range anxiety top up of only 15% and allows, therefore, the higher than usual rate knowing that it won't take long. But that's a guess.

Now as you are seeking information about charging in general I will go on to tell you why I started a charge at one stall only to terminate it after a minute or two. Most of the SC out there are the 120kW units. Two of these shared a cabinet (which was rumored to contain Model S charger modules) and were labeled, for example 2A and 2B. If you plug into 2A when there is another car in 2B you will not get 120kW as the car in 2B has priority. When his charge tapers then you would start to get more. So the message is that if you arrive at an older SC with 120 kW chargers that is quite full look for an unpaired stall (i.e. one with no car in the stall with the same number). Obviously, if the station is really loaded, you have no choice. This really isn't the big deal lots of people make it out to be because odds are the guy in the other stall will leave within a few minutes. The newer stations do not share capacity in this way.

 

[ajdelange]

Question: How does mobile service work?

I've had three minor problems pop up in the last couple of weeks. I'd been thinking I'd wait until I got home to get them seen to as there are two Tesla Service centers where I live: one 10 minutes from the house and one perhaps 30. Where I spend the summer there are also two: one an hour and a half away (Montreal) and the other 3 (Quebec City). Just to give you an idea a what to expect the earliest appointment I could get in Montreal was 3 weeks out but in Quebec city I could get one at the end of this week. I tried to book the QC appointment only to get an "Error. Can't book appointment. Try again later" message. So I tried again later but entered the problem descriptions under "Other" rather than "Interior". This time it came right back and offered me Ranger service 18 days out. This is clearly much more convenient (and also in this plague situation much more comfortable).

The messages are
1)Tesla still has lots of work to do on improving service. Step 1, IMO is to put humans back in the loop
2)How you interact with the app when requesting service can have a big effect on what you get
3)The service part of the app sorely needs improvement.

Scream and kick all we want I think we are all going to have to accept that service is going to remain the biggest negative in Tesla ownership for some time to come. Fortunately the cars are pretty reliable and not much service is required.

 

[ldjessee]

Even with an 18 day lead time, I still cannot get Nissan to come do the annual maintenance on my Leaf... So, though it is not perfect, they are doing things that other car companies are not.

I was hoping other car companies would see this and do it, but then I realized that since they have outsourced the servicing to the dealership and the dealership is not big enough to make something like mobile service a viable option... probably never going to happen.