Nikola is going to crush Tesla with its new technology!

[CappyJax]

We are going to make hydrogen cheaper by having all of our 700 vaporware hydrogen facilities standardized.

And we have a battery with double the energy density of what Tesla uses.

But you can't see the technology demonstrated.

Nor can any independent labs verify the claims.

And we won't actually explain to you how it will work.

But trust us.

It is real, we promise.

No, I am not lying.

I can't read books.



Seriously though, how can this continue? How can our society allow this kind of fraud to continue. I would bet that most people in this forum know this is BS. But our government lets this continue? Why is it that if a guy tries to sell the Brooklyn bridge, he is arrested and charged, but when under the guise of a business, you can do essentially the same thing and get away with it?

I spoke with Trevor last year about working for him. But after about 5 or 6 interactions I realize that something was wrong. Dude buys a brand new $4.2M airplane when he could have had better performance and capability from a much cheaper used aircraft. He wastes money like it is water, I guess because it really isn't his money.

Why is this not illegal?

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[ReddykwRun]

We are going to make hydrogen cheaper by having all of our 700 vaporware hydrogen facilities standardized.

And we have a battery with double the energy density of what Tesla uses.

But you can't see the technology demonstrated.

Nor can any independent labs verify the claims.

And we won't actually explain to you how it will work.

But trust us.

It is real, we promise.

No, I am not lying.

I can't read books.



Seriously though, how can this continue? How can our society allow this kind of fraud to continue. I would bet that most people in this forum know this is BS. But our government lets this continue? Why is it that if a guy tries to sell the Brooklyn bridge, he is arrested and charged, but when under the guise of a business, you can do essentially the same thing and get away with it?

I spoke with Trevor last year about working for him. But after about 5 or 6 interactions I realize that something was wrong. Dude buys a brand new $4.2M airplane when he could have had better performance and capability from a much cheaper used aircraft. He wastes money like it is water, I guess because it really isn't his money.

Why is this not illegal?

Agree.

 

[Mini2nut]

He’s the 21st century version of a snake oil salesman.

 

[Nanodot]

[snip]
Seriously though, how can this continue? How can our society allow this kind of fraud to continue.

Well, after 40 years of various careers, people who talk like him convincingly win job interviews and get hired most of the time. Only later do do the employers often learn they were oversold a bill of goods. Nothing new under the sun - people who speak with authority and confidence garner the masses to anything they sell.

 

[CappyJax]

Well, after 40 years of various careers, people who talk like him convincingly win job interviews and get hired most of the time. Only later do do the employers often learn they were oversold a bill of goods. Nothing new under the sun - people who speak with authority and confidence garner the masses to anything they sell.

What is ironic is that I am an Aspie, and I generally do not read people well at all. But I could read him like a book. He came across as a BS artist and terribly narcissistic. And he spent money like it was going out of style. I think if I started a company that hadn't actually produced anything and hasn't earned a penny in income, I wouldn't be spending millions on frivolous things. But then again I would have realized the math for HFC vehicles didn't add up a long time ago and changed our business focus.

 

[jonny]

yeah he the reason I like Elon even more.

what happen to a full self driving fleet of cars from GM in 2018??? (yeah, they were going to go from no program what so ever to cars with no steering wheels in 8 months)

I called BS on then. they were just trying to kill tesla sales.

 

[CappyJax]

The real irony is that a battery with twice the energy density of Tesla's current batteries would make hydrogen completely obsolete. If you could have 800 miles of range with electric, and 800 miles of range with hydrogen, why would you chose hydrogen? You are going to pay 5 times the cost for zero benefit. Maybe if you have a two person crew and can drive all the time, you get a faster refueling time. But you would never make up that extra cost.

I think the problem is his massive ego. He won't admit he was wrong and is driving that company into oblivion. He could just drop the HFC concept and just focus on BEV and he would actually look somewhat competent.

 

[Handy Artie]

If you’re trying to sell hydrogen as a fuel for trucks you’re already in competition with current production fueled by natural gas. Liquefied natural gas distribution is already in place in some areas of the US and natural gas is already cheaper fuel than hydrogen.

 

[Newton]

Why stuff like this happens and will continue to happen is the same reason people like Facebook and google mine your data.

The punishments arnt as bad as the rewards.

If I'm fined 100m for outright copying a patent. But I made 1b from selling the thing. OF COURSE I'm gonna steal that shit. (Not me personally, because I have morals)

 

[Dids]

I hope Nikola is successful. Big rigs running on hydrogen is better than big rigs running on diesel. But I would not want a hydrogen vehicle.

 

[AlexD]

He’s the 21st century version of a snake oil salesman.

What really amazes me is the number of gullible people who have invested in this obvious ponzi operation.
Are people really that stupid?
Trevor is such an obvious bullsh1tter.
But not stupid!
He has got an aircraft and a $40 million house from this scam already!

 

[CappyJax]

What really amazes me is the number of gullible people who have invested in this obvious ponzi operation.
Are people really that stupid?
Trevor is such an obvious bullsh1tter.
But not stupid!
He has got an aircraft and a $40 million house from this scam already!

When I suggested he buy a used plane for less than 1/3rd the price, he balked at that and said he wanted new. He is very impulsive and doesn't listen. I think that is the problem. He says he surrounds himself with smart people, but the problem is that he isn't smart enough to listen to them. I bet a large portion of his company think the hydrogen thing is stupid and they should just focus on BEVs.

 

[ajdelange]

Folks need to be reminded from time to time that Nikola's business plan is based on selling hydrogen - not trucks. The central idea is that they will buy electricity for 4¢/kWh (a penny over wholesale) and use it to produce H2 by hydrolysis.

Hydrogen in the trucking industry has a tremendous advantage over batteries. The amount of hydrogen required to go long haul weighs a small fraction of what the equivalent batteries would. In commercial trucking vehicle weight equals lost payload and lost revenue. A machine like the Semi will probably be limited to the LTL (Less Than Truckload) segment of the industry. That's not a tiny market by any means so the Semi should sell. But a hydrogen fueled will do better in the full load long haul segment.

Nikola intends to sell trucking service to an operator by the mile. Nikola owns it, fuels it, maintains it, repairs it. All the operator has to do is provide a driver.

Seems to me that the whole thing turns on Nikola's ability to get electricity at 4¢. If they can pull that off then they may have a winner. I question whether they can or not but have begun to rethink my position on hydrogen. I do not believe a hydrogen fueled consumer car will ever be practical but a 16 wheeler is a different matter.

 

[CappyJax]

Folks need to be reminded from time to time that Nikola's business plan is based on selling hydrogen - not trucks. The central idea is that they will buy electricity for 4¢/kWh (a penny over wholesale) and use it to produce H2 by hydrolysis.

Hydrogen in the trucking industry has a tremendous advantage over batteries. The amount of hydrogen required to go long haul weighs a small fraction of what the equivalent batteries would. In commercial trucking vehicle weight equals lost payload and lost revenue. A machine like the Semi will probably be limited to the LTL (Less Than Truckload) segment of the industry. That's not a tiny market by any means so the Semi should sell. But a hydrogen fueled will do better in the full load long haul segment.

Nikola intends to sell trucking service to an operator by the mile. Nikola owns it, fuels it, maintains it, repairs it. All the operator has to do is provide a driver.

Seems to me that the whole thing turns on Nikola's ability to get electricity at 4¢. If they can pull that off then they may have a winner. I question whether they can or not but have begun to rethink my position on hydrogen. I do not believe a hydrogen fueled consumer car will ever be practical but a 16 wheeler is a different matter.

Their cost would come out to at least 22¢ per mile before they even make a profit. Right now, the average diesel is 37¢ per mile. That means they need to be above 22¢ enough to make a profit, and below 37¢ to make it competitive with current diesel trucks. Of course, diesel truck manufacturers have made impressive gains in fuel mileage and have seen as high as 12.2 mpg making their fuel cost 20¢ per mile. This means a FCV can not compete even with diesels.

If he can buy electricity at 4¢/kW, so can other companies for BEVs and have an energy cost of 8¢ per mile. At least during night hours.

 

[Handy Artie]

Even this is no competition power wise for 4 electric motors/generators:

https://www.cummins.com/engines/isx12n-2018