Towing Range Expectations

[Alpeyev]

I am hoping to get some information on towing range capabilities of the Cybertruck, looking at this video on YouTube’s testing of model X from below article, it seems that 300 miles range could translate to 100 miles with the trailer. Did anybody see any information on that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fossby...-is-not-pickup-truck-but-trailer-instead/amp/

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[Cyber1qhorsey]

There is an obvious argument for packing as much battery as possible into each class of cybertruck if you're thinking about towing. Specs or offering of LR versions are not clear yet. (To me).

 

[Camper Van Someren]

There is an obvious argument for packing as much battery as possible into each class of cybertruck if you're thinking about towing. Specs or offering of LR versions are not clear yet. (To me).

Yes this is my biggest concern as well. It seems Tesla will offer their own trailer with extra battery so my question is which is the better buy? Extra 20K for tri over dual gets you an extra 200 mile range. How much will the battery trailer cost and how much range will that net?

 

[Alpeyev]

So we can safely say that adding a Tesla power wall to your travel trailer might be a good alternative to extend range without paying 20K extrA for tri motor. Haha haha. Interesting option considering that the thing only weighs 300 lbs.

 

[TylerC43]

Compared to a standard truck it doesn't look too good for the time being.

Good video for anyone who appreciates numbers.

Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing.

 

[Cyber1qhorsey]

This video is the classic spherical chicken physics problem. It's not REAL folks. Given the conservative assumptions e.g., who in the world is towing MAX rated load at 75 mph! Geesh! The Ford in this case is 'good' because it's extra large optional fuel tank makes it so. However ya spend about $ 100 for each refill of the gas guzzler. For Cybertruck towing it's important to maximize LR battery pack, fitted, one hopes with next gen batteries, in another 2 to 3 years. Finally, and simply, a planned recharge stop(s) on any trip up and back keeps everyone happy and leaves one with more MONEY in the pocket and plenty of charge to spare when you arrive home. Gas does not make you happier!! BTW, the regenerative braking system is insanely efficient going downhill... Happy trails!

 

[Camper Van Someren]

Whether it will have next gen batteries is an important question. Seems like 2-3 years may be when Tesla is ready to sell their improved Li-ion “pouch” battery, and other manufacturers may rolling out solid state batteries.

I’d hate to spend $70K on a huge 200kw-h battery only to have them debut a cheaper, denser, more durable battery a year later.

 

[Alpeyev]

Compared to a standard truck it doesn't look too good for the time being.

Good video for anyone who appreciates numbers.

Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing.

That totally proves my concern. I towed my RV with F150 and it is not efficient at all. You loose third of the mileage per gallon so about 6-8 mpg. Based on the initial video I posted and this video, it is the same for EV. Problem is recharging. While one refills F150 at the stop for 15 minutes, Tesla would have to get a full charge which takes considerably longer and not very practical. You have to keep in mind that there are a few hypotheticals on numbers here and situation will not be quite as bad. Hoping Elon keeps that in mind, otherwise I switched to a tri motor from my initial dual configuration. Missing FSD now :/
As a business man, Elon probably not targeting truck owners who actually uses them as tow vehicles. Based on stats, not that many truck owners do tow. I don’t think he will make sure that he targets that smaller group and instead go after people who does not need tow range, just ability to drive their butt with some junk in their trunk.

 

[ajdelange]

The towing capability depends on the trailer you intend to tow and where you intend to tow it as reflected through the energy consumes in overcoming the drag, rolling resistance and potential energy change. The physics are the same as for an ICE vehicle and, as has been pointed out here already several times, ICE vehicles outshine BEVs on long distance towing jobs because the ratio of onboard energy to rate of energy consumption is, despite the inefficiencies of gas, much greater than it is with BEVs. This also means that if you know the effect of your trailer on your ICE vehicle you can estimate what you can do with it on a BEV.

An example is probably the best way to expliain this. When I tow a small trailer behind my Lexus SUV the gas mileage on a long trip drops from about 20 mpg to about 15. Thus my gallons per mile are 20/15 = 1.333 times higher with the trailer. My range, on a tank, is thus reduced to 3/4 of what it is without the trailer. I would get a very similar result were I to tow the trailer with my X100D or Cybertruck. The X nominally requires 300 Wh to go a mile. That's going to go up to about 400 and the nominally 300 mile range of the X would be reduced to 225 miles. For rough estimates like this we can assume that the X continues to need 300 Wh to go a mile and that the trailer needs an extra 100.

The bottom line here is that if you know the mpg impact of your trailer on your ICE truck you can apply it to the mi/Wh rating for your BEV and get an estimate of towing range.

Very roughly we can observe that if we put a 3000 kg trailer behind a 3000 kg truck and run the rig up a mountain it will use about twice the power required by the truck alone.

 

[ajdelange]

Based on stats, not that many truck owners do tow.

The applications I mostly see for towing are lawn services that pull a trailer with their mowers, etc, and construction workers who have trailers with their tools. As this is mostly local the Cybertruck should be fine for this service.

The other application is the fifth wheel rigs I see towing huge house trailers on the Quebec/Florida seasonal migration route. I don't think the Cybertruck is for that.

 

[Saskateam]

I live in farm country and I know people who are always towing, however the distance towed is quite short. Usually to the field and back or to get parts or repairs. The CT will accommodate this regularly.

The other area towing is common here is going to the lake. In this case it is to take the trailer to the seasonal lot in the spring and back in the fall. This will take some planning to achieve however it is doable.

Infrastructure improvements will help for sure. With a Tri Motor and 250kwh charging you can go 250-400 miles towing and then charge in 45 minutes to an hour and do it again. If you can tow for 4 hours and then stop for lunch and get on the road and to go another 4 hours you will put in a good day of towing. You may be able to fill your ICE truck, go to the bathroom and grab a gas station or fast food meal for the road in 15 minutes. I have 2 kids and I cannot do this. They need to use the bathroom and get out to move around. My usual fill up takes 15-20 minutes then I have to find a place to eat and let the the kids/dog get some energy out. I am usually stopping for 1 hour when I do stop for gas.

I think the Tri Motor is your only option for long haul towing from an EV today.

 

[ajdelange]

I said above I didn't think you could haul a large trailer from Quebec to Florida. I subsequently put some numbers into ABRP. I assumed 400 WH/mi for the Cybertruck and another 400 Wh/mi for the trailer. With a 100 kWh battery one would have to stop 22 times to charge (every 100 miles or less) taking a total of 13 hrs (30 hrs driving time) at the stalls. The good news with the CT relative to, e.g., the R1T, is that there are plenty of SC's charging reasonable rates ($257 total for the trip). With the 175 - 200 kWh battery that the trimotor CT will have presumably one could go twice as far between charges reducing their number to 11 but it would still require 13 hours of charging and the costs would still be about the same. I guess that is something that one might consider doing were it only twice per year.

Another problem that has not been mentioned is that most Tesla SC stalls are designed to have a car back up to them. Some stations will have one or two "pull through" stall which accommodate trailers. Thus the spectre of having to unhitch at each charge raises its ugly head.

Also ran the numbers for the R1T again doubling the power drain for the trailer. Fifteen charges would be required but the estimated cost zooms to $726.

 

[MARSROVER]

Would it be strange to think the numbers Elon is presenting is with towing? Isn't that how he presented the Semi numbers? This would be quite a surprise, but awesome to hear.

Also, there have been renderings of a trailer. A trailer bed would be an excellent means of supplying extra power if the floor were a battery extending pack. It's only a matter of time until this becomes a reality. High-end cargo/camper/horse trailers with battery packs in the floors doubling or even tripling the range of the truck. People are already shelling out huge amounts of money on their tow rigs/trailers. This seems like a no brainer.

 

[Camper Van Someren]

I said above I didn't think you could haul a large trailer from Quebec to Florida. I subsequently put some numbers into ABRP. I assumed 400 WH/mi for the Cybertruck and another 400 Wh/mi for the trailer. With a 100 kWh battery one would have to stop 22 times to charge (every 100 miles or less) taking a total of 13 hrs (30 hrs driving time) at the stalls. The good news with the CT relative to, e.g., the R1T, is that there are plenty of SC's charging reasonable rates ($257 total for the trip). With the 175 - 200 kWh battery that the trimotor CT will have presumably one could go twice as far between charges reducing their number to 11 but it would still require 13 hours of charging and the costs would still be about the same. I guess that is something that one might consider doing were it only twice per year.

Another problem that has not been mentioned is that most Tesla SC stalls are designed to have a car back up to them. Some stations will have one or two "pull through" stall which accommodate trailers. Thus the spectre of having to unhitch at each charge raises its ugly head.

Also ran the numbers for the R1T again doubling the power drain for the trailer. Fifteen charges would be required but the estimated cost zooms to $726.

Yes, I brought up the back-in superchargers in another thread. Elon has said that they will be adding more pull-through superchargers, but unless they build huge gas-stations full that isn’t a great answer IMO. Most people towing will have large batteries and need over an hour to charge. If you pull up to a supercharger center on a busy interstate and both pull-through chargers are taken, you may need to wait an hour for one to open and another hour to charge yourself.

I don’t know if it is included currently, but maybe Tesla could show which superchargers are currently in use in their app? Maybe people waiting in line could also enter their name and expected charge time into the charger to “reserve” the next spot. Then you could use the app to search for the closest trailer-friendly pull-through charger that will be opening in the next 10 minutes.

The other thing people said when we discussed charging with trailers was how easy it will be to hitch/unhitch with multiple rear cameras and air suspension. Still sounds like a PITA to me, especially if you have a 5th wheel or the charging station doesn’t have large trailer parking spaces nearby.

I do see a couple advantages here with a special Tesla specific trailer. First, it could have an automated locking mechanism for the hitch so you won’t even need to get out of the truck to hitch/unhitch. Second, if it has an auxiliary battery then this could charge simultaneously on another supercharger, reducing your charge time compared to a single truck with a very large battery.

 

[ajdelange]

Would it be strange to think the numbers Elon is presenting is with towing?

Not likely. They are doubtless his best estimate of the EPA range. It would be impossible for him to offer a range with towing without specifying the trailer just as it would be impossible for him to offer the EPA estimate without knowing the details of the EPA protocol.

Also, there have been renderings of a trailer. A trailer bed would be an excellent means of supplying extra power if the floor were a battery extending pack.

That sort of makes sense.