New fishing hunting lodge in northern Saskatchewan

[Dale Sather]

Hi im looking in to building a 100% solar lodge and an very big part of profetably will involve hauling my own freaight useing a cybertruck with a 32' foot tridom wheel tralier.
The thing is it will be about 1000klm north of Saskatoon my question is would a guy be able to fill the roof of tralier with solar panels and if need 1 or 2 powerwalls in side that would allow for more distance?
The other problem is outboard motars use gas somebody needs to build a 18 to 20 foot fishing boat that runs on batteries with the ability to have about 50hp outboard

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[ajdelange]

In a word NO. I just did the analysis for another guy here earlier today. The number of panels you can cram onto the roof of one of these is only sufficient to produce a few miles of range per day without the trailer and half to a third of that with. You will have to arrange for roadside charging aiong the way i.e. strike a deal with commercial establishments along the route to allow you to install 60 A chargers at their facilities. These would require hours of charging every 170 km or so. There are some applications where a CT is not a viable fit.

The boats exist (but not AFAIK at the 50 hp level) for use on lakes that don't allow gas engines. But they have to be charged. You need to do an energy audit for this project before going ahead with it. From what you have said so far I'd say it doesn't look too promising.

 

[Dale Sather]

In a word NO. I just did the analysis for another guy here earlier today. The number of panels you can cram onto the roof of one of these is only sufficient to produce a few miles of range per charge without the trailer and half to a third of that with. You will have to arrange for roadside charging aiong the way i.e. strike a deal with commercial establishments along the route to allow you to install 60 A chargers at their facilities. These would require hours of charging every 170 km or so. There are some applications where a CT is not a viable fit.

The boats exist (but not AFAIK at the 50 hp level) for use on lakes that don't allow gas engines. But they have to be charged. You need to do an energy audit for this project before going ahead with it. From what you have said so far I'd say it doesn't look too promising.

So an area of 256 sq feet of solar panels with 2 power walls could that not give me the ability to drive 1000km with stoping twice to recharg. If so what would it take to recharg as fast as posable unloading off the powerwalls first The most the truck would be puilling is in the nabourhood of 15000 lbs with min amount of hich waight du to the triple acle trailer. Even with the hudge up front cost of truck and trailer customation. The saveings would be increditable. The biggest cost of running a lodge is fuel with my plans the only flying will be charters from saskatoon to lodge for guests only.
I know there is a way of doing this with no fuel used. As for the lodge power that far north you have allmost 22 hrs a day of full sun with such a steep cost of getting all your power/fuel needs payback will be somuch faster than in the south and there is no such thing as the grid. No grid to get from any power you get it is self supplyed.
If you where to take your power bill and times it by 8 (just a guess) or 10. Or if you got all you needs from solar the payback would be so fast. Im shur would be payed for in less than 5 years. What i need is a quot from a company like solarcity to get all my plans and show me what my needs are and a cost for that. With a deal or no deal requirement that I will have no down time because the solar panels cant keep up with the batteries running out. Theres got to be a way that it can be done even if it cost 2.5 million to build all the lodge needs and that the truck and trailer can suply enugh power that the truck can drive for 16 hours with3 stops or better yet the ability to recharg on the go so you use to a min of 30% and charge to 75% maxamising the batt. life what i realy would like is someone that could help me to plan my way around what I realistly can get.

 

[Dale Sather]

Hi im looking in to building a 100% solar lodge and an very big part of profetably will involve hauling my own freaight useing a cybertruck with a 32' foot tridom wheel tralier.
The thing is it will be about 1000klm north of Saskatoon my question is would a guy be able to fill the roof of tralier with solar panels and if need 1 or 2 powerwalls in side that would allow for more distance?
The other problem is outboard motars use gas somebody needs to build a 18 to 20 foot fishing boat that runs on batteries with the ability to have about 50hp outboard

Wow i just seen something on Tesla Time news about an battrie powered outboard motar with batt. Cells that you just add more cells for a increse in batt. Life and horse power. The name is evoy.

 

[ajdelange]

So an area of 256 sq feet of solar panels with 2 power walls could that not give me the ability to drive 1000km with stoping twice to recharg.

256 ft^2 is 8 ft by 32 ft, Where does an array of this size mount on a CT? But let's overlook that question and go with 256 for the moment. That's 24 m^2. When the sun directly overhead it delivers a kW/m^2, Modern panels are getting to around 25% efficient so that means a 24 m^2 array would deliver abourt 24/4 = 6 kW when the sun is in the optimum position. Panel inverters are about 90% effiicient so you will get 5.4 kW or so to send to the Powerwall. But lets assume that you are parked somewhere with the solar array deployed adjacent to the truck. You would have the 5.4 kW available to send to the truck battery via it's charging port. The truck's charging circuit (rectifier --> inverter --> rectifier) is about 90% efficient (amazing!) but you do lose something and wind up with 4.86 kW for the battery, As long as the weather is perfect and you are pointed right at the sun. If you aren't (i.e. if the panels are horizontal - fixed to the roof of the truck or parallel to the ground) there will be additional losses because they aren't aimed at the sun. We'll assume for now that they are on a rack next to the truck which rack can be swiveled and tilted so that you can track the sun and neglect these losses. So 4.88 kW is the maximum power. But the sun rises and sets so it can't be at maximum power all day. The equivalent number of optimum hours is published in tables and charts by the Canadian government. These number take into account the seasons. At high latitude the sun is above the horizon most of the day but not by much depending on the time of year, I think you will find insolation in Canada at about 3 hours per day. This means your total available insolation is about 3 *4.8 = 14.4 kWh. The CT is going to take about 450 Wh/mi without a trailer. Thus a day's collection from a 24 m^2 panel array will net you about 32 miles on average. On a good day in summer you might get half that and on a not so good day half that much. Clearly in winter at high latitude you aren't going to get squat. With a trailer you can expect all numbers to decrease to about half.

Now if you set out with two fully charged power walls on board you would have 26 kWh additional to play with. That is 26000/450 = 57.8 miles without a trailer and half that, or less, with. This assumes that you can toss a powerwall into the back of a pickup and have a solar array that can interface with it. Keep in mind that 26 kWh of juice in a pair of Powerwalls is about 13% of the capacity of the 200 kWh battery we anticipate in the TriMotor.

If so what would it take to recharg as fast as posable unloading off the powerwalls first

I think the powerwalls are capable of 7kW each so 2 could deliver 14 kw. The max the current Tesla vehicles can charge at is 11.5 kw and at 450 wh/mi that mean 25.5 miles range per hour of charging. It would take 2.26 hours to discharge two of them. If the hypothesizes second charging port is there clearly the Powerwalls could be discharged at their maximum rate and the charge transfer would happen faster.

The most the truck would be puilling is in the nabourhood of 15000 lbs with min amount of hich waight du to the triple acle trailer.

The towing limitation is 14,000 pounds so at 15000 you are over. That shouldn't be a problem as long as tongue weight is within limits.

Even with the hudge up front cost of truck and trailer customation. The saveings would be increditable. The biggest cost of running a lodge is fuel with my plans the only flying will be charters from saskatoon to lodge for guests only.

BEVs rely on electricity and electricity means being on the grid unless one is willing, or has to, pay huge sums to have fuel trucked or, worse, flown in.

I know there is a way of doing this with no fuel used.

Yes, renewable energy. If you can install a windmill or hydro you would be able to do it without fuel. Obviously Quebec is able to do this. I have no idea as to whether Saskatchewan has the resources Quebec has.

As for the lodge power that far north you have allmost 22 hrs a day of full sun with such a steep cost of getting all your power/fuel needs payback will be somuch faster than in the south and there is no such thing as the grid.

The catch at high latitude is that the elevation of the sun never gets very high. At 60 N zenith distance is never less than 36.5. With a big enough array and enough powerwalls and if the cloud situation is favorable you should, nonetheless, be able to obtain as much as you need, I said in my last post that you need to do an energy audit. I'll say that again. Consult an expert in solar systems installed at high latitudes.

What i need is a quot from a company like solarcity to get all my plans and show me what my needs are and a cost for that.

Yes. Exactly.

and that the truck and trailer can suply enugh power that the truck can drive for 16 hours with3 stops or better yet the ability to recharg on the go so you use to a min of 30% and charge to 75% maxamising the batt.

The basic facts are that the range of a CT towing a 15000 pound trailer will have a range of about 250 km and you will have to stop and charge every 250 km or so, Wherever the charging energy comes from it will have to be taken on at Level 2 rates becuase there aren't any superchargers out there (there is one CHAdeMO at a Crappy Tire in the province though). With a single charge port that's going to take 5.8 hrs. If the second port is installed (and there is a second level 2 charger) that would go down to 2.9.

 

[Newton]

Instead of powerpalls it would be substantially cheaper to get a used, ie from ascrapped car, model 3, s or x battery pack. From ebay or 1 of many resellers, they have them for 10-15k. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2019-...104422-00-M-OEM-2018-/133397480905?nav=SEARCH

 

[Dids]

Have you considered the Tesla semi as a tractor? It's range fully loaded (80,000 lbs) is 805km, unloaded 975km which would get you from the grid to your solar installation at the lodge.
There are many people that will tell you what you can't do, very few that will tell you how to do something. Don't be discouraged. No one knows the range of CT towing and anyone that throws around numbers as facts is blowing smoke.
I assume you are talking about the 3 motor CT which is supposed to have a range in excess of 800km unloaded.
Using the Semi numbers of 17,000 lbs unloaded and 80,000 loaded the additional 63,000 lbs only reduces the range by 170km. These are actual test numbers and are actual facts.

 

[ajdelange]

As for the lodge power that far north you have allmost 22 hrs a day of full sun

That comment got me interested, dammit, ond so I pushed some numbers. That much sunlight at the summer solstice says you are at close to 65 °N. The sun is indeed above the horizon for almost 22 hrs (actually it isn't but you can still see it when it's a bit below the horizon so it appears to be above it for that long) but you can only get the equivalent of 12.9 hours of full sunshine per day (averaged over the month of June 2020) - if your array tracks the sun. A fixed array aimed south and tilted to the optimum angle (which, quite contrary to intuition, is higher than the sun ever gets) can only collect an average (over June) of 7.4 hours per day, This assumes not a cloud in the sky for the entire month but shows the importance of a tracking array, when one is that far north. Thus without tracking one would need 12.9/7.4 = 1.74 times as many panels. Tracking is going to add cost but so is 74% more panels. You would need to consult a supplier to see what's the cheapest way to go.

To get an idea of the number of panels you'd need: each panel provides about 1/4 kW at full sun and thus, at 12.9 hrs equivalent full sun per day 12.9/4 = 3.225 kWh per day. In a non tracking system it would give 7.4/4 = 1.85 kWh per day.

If you had 100 panels, for example, this would be referred to as a 25kW AC system because at apparent noon each clear day a tracking system would produce 25 kW, Over the course of the average sunny day in June the system would produce 25 * 12.9 = 322.5 or 25*7.4 = 188 kWh depending on whether it is tracking or not. Now this needs to be compared to the load. Obviously charging the CT for the return trip is one of them. The TriMotor is going to have a battery of capacity near 200 kWh. So that job will take 2/3 of a days production from a tracking system and a bit over a days production from a non tracking one. Remenber that these are all perfect weather numbers. Obviously if it is cloudy half the time production numbers are halved,

The other loads are of course lights, pumps, appliances, computers... associated with operating your establishment. Clearly the average production of the solar system will have to equal the average load but allowance must be made for the fact that load is not imposed uniformly over time. You need to know the distrubution of loads in order to be able to determine the size of the storage (PowerWalls) you will need with the array. In any case a backup generator is definitely in the picture.

 

[Matt Hanrath]

Hi im looking in to building a 100% solar lodge and an very big part of profetably will involve hauling my own freaight useing a cybertruck with a 32' foot tridom wheel tralier.
The thing is it will be about 1000klm north of Saskatoon my question is would a guy be able to fill the roof of tralier with solar panels and if need 1 or 2 powerwalls in side that would allow for more distance?
The other problem is outboard motars use gas somebody needs to build a 18 to 20 foot fishing boat that runs on batteries with the ability to have about 50hp outboard

The answer is not just plain NO!
There are ways to adapt to make the seemly impossible possible. time is precious yes so stop and transformer style trailer for wind and solar possibilities have trade offs.
Dream of a "mothership" "Transformer" type trailer that can also become the boat carrying the cyber truck. and generating power with extra banks of batteries in the bottom of the trailer. I believe in the power of dreaming till they come true. Elon is that type of guy we need more thinking and becoming more like him.

 

[ajdelange]

The answer is not just plain NO!

Read OP's question. The answer to it is, in a word, NO!

There are ways to adapt to make the seemly impossible possible. time is precious yes so stop and transformer style trailer for wind and solar possibilities have trade offs.

I can't make sense of much of that. For starters I don't know what a "transformer stye trailer" is. But you are right that if one has enough money and influence the problem could be solved. If, for example, a "transformer style trailer" is a trailer with a line transformer mounted to it one could stop anywhere there is a power line, climb a pole and attach alligator clips to the 12.5 kV line and take 240 from the secondary. I see a few minor problems with this approach but it would work.

Dream of a "mothership" "Transformer" type trailer that can also become the boat carrying the cyber truck. and generating power with extra banks of batteries in the bottom of the trailer.

If the CT is on the trailer, what pulls the trailer?

OP wants to trailer stuff to his 1000 km distant camp. There is an obvious solution here and that is to drop $4000 on a NorthStar 165607 worksite generator and put that on the trailer with jerry cans containing the requisite amount of petrol. This genny will deliver the full 11.5 kW that the CT can accept. It's equipped with a NEMA 14-60R into which one can plug a Watzilla Black Mamba charger to get the full 48 A the CT can take (there is currently no Tesla plug-in charger that can do this).

Now OP wants to tow a 15,000 lb trailer which is 1,000 over spec but probably doable. The bad news is, of course, that at that load range is probably going to go down to 1/3 or less than no load range so he'll have to stop and recharge every 150 miles (270 km) or so. And each charge will take something like 14 hours. Many of us are hopeful that the TriMotor CT will be equipped with dual charge ports (because the Semi has these) in which case charge stops would be reduced to 7 hours and, of course, he would have to invest in a second generator and second Black Mamba.

It's interesting, of course, to think about how much battery one would have to carry to do this trip were one to contemplate that approach. It's 600 miles and the consumtion is probably going to be about 1 kWh per mile because of the heavy load. So that means 600 kW hours of batteries would need to be on board. Assuming the truck to have a 200 kWh battery the electrical jerry can would have to be 400 kWh. To put that in perspective, it' about 31 Powerwalls. So clearly Tesla's Powerpack would be the preferred solution. Two of them would be required. Their weight (4847 lbs each plus 2470 lbs for a inverter) would take a substantial chunk out of the payload OP hopes to haul and their cost prohibitive. But given that so many $ are being thrown out here we would add Super Charger hardware to our fantasy here (interfaces directly to the 3 ø output of the Powerpack) and get the charging time down to an hour or so at each charging stop. Note that Tesla put some trailers together like this for the fire situation in California. Perhaps OP could get a good deal on one of them.

I believe in the power of dreaming till they come true.

Why does this make me think of Hector Berlioz?

 

[TyPope]

If he could charge the Powerpack while driving and drove slow enough, he wouldn't have as much of a time delay. Man, let me get some price bids...