Home Charging System / Charger Kit

[TyPope]

Hey, I'm getting ready to wire my garage for charging a MY and CT... I know there is a lot unknown about the CT but I have an opportunity to get a heavily reduced charger and need to know NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 .... which is better and why? @ajdelange chime in, please! By heavily reduced, I mean, it's a Chargepoint that my local utility will pay for $500 of the $699 cost.
Is there a clear benefit to having a Tesla charger at home? Ease of plugging in or anything? Not having to mess with adapters? A little help here will be greatly appreciated.

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[CyberG]

You absolutely want a charger at home. Tesla requires the NEMA 14-50 plug. That will allow up to 40 amps of charging which is plenty for overnight charging. The model Y can handle up to 48 amps AC, so you could get a 60 amp line. The CT may or may not go higher than 48 amps, we don’t know yet. But I would assume they would go back to the original dual 40 amp chargers for a total of 80 amp capability. I’m assuming the long range CT will have between 150 kwh and 200 kWh.

 

[TyPope]

You absolutely want a charger at home. Tesla requires the NEMA 14-50 plug. That will allow up to 40 amps of charging which is plenty for overnight charging. The model Y can handle up to 48 amps AC, so you could get a 60 amp line. The CT may or may not go higher than 48 amps, we don’t know yet. But I would assume they would go back to the original dual 40 amp chargers for a total of 80 amp capability. I’m assuming the long range CT will have between 150 kwh and 200 kWh.

Oh, I'm going to get a charger. I didn't know if getting the "free" one from my Electric company would be worth it over getting a Tesla charger. The one from the electric company plugs into either the NEMA 14-15 or 6-50 outlet. So, you say Tesla needs the 14-50 plug. I wasn't sure if the Tesla plugs being able to communicate with each other to share the load would be worth it or not.

 

[TyPope]

Oh, I'm going to get a charger. I didn't know if getting the "free" one from my Electric company would be worth it over getting a Tesla charger. The one from the electric company plugs into either the NEMA 14-15 or 6-50 outlet. So, you say Tesla needs the 14-50 plug. I wasn't sure if the Tesla plugs being able to communicate with each other to share the load would be worth it or not.

Actually, the program ends on 01 June which may not give me enough time to receive and register the car anyway... may as well figure out a two Tesla charger solution...

 

[CyberG]

Tesla has always given you a charger with several adapters but the main one fits a 14-50, unless something has changed and they don’t give you the charger anymore. You don’t really need a separate charger unless you want to keep the one from Tesla in your vehicle. You just need the plug or plugs which an electrician can wire for you. I currently have one 14-50 plug, but will probably get either a 60 or 100 amp plug when the CT arrives.

 

[CyberG]

There are other adapters that will fit a normal wall plug, but it will take days to charge.

 

[ajdelange]

Hey, I'm getting ready to wire my garage for charging a MY and CT... I know there is a lot unknown about the CT but I have an opportunity to get a heavily reduced charger and need to know NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 .... which is better and why?

I'm going to put in a lot of background information here before I get to your question. This will help you understand my answer better.

The situation as of today is that the BEV industry seems to have settled on 48 Amperes at 240 V (11.52 kW) as the maximum rating for a Level 2 charger. Because a EVSE is considered to be a continuous load (on for more than 3 hours which, of course, it often is) it must be supplied by a circuit with 25% more capacity than it draws, in this case, 60 A. Note that the NEC requires that any EVSE supply circuit that draws more than that must be isolatable by a lockable disconnect. Tesla's older wall chargers could supply up to 80 A requiring a 100 A circuit and, thus, the disconnect. Up to four of them could share one circuit thus supplying up to 4 cars 20 A each or one car with dual 40 A chargers (no longer available), one of their later X or S models with triple 24 A charging modules with 8 A left for a second car or any combination that didn't exceed 80 A - all from the same circuit breaker with the "master" HPWC apportioning the current via a hard wired com pair. The new approach (HPWC Gen 3) is quite different. A Gen 3 HPWC is limited to no more than 48 A matching the largest charger found in the current production cars and what I expect to see in the CT's with the thought that there may be tow charge ports in the TriMotor as it has longer range. This thought is stimulated by the fact that the Semi apparently has multiple charging ports. If that turns out to be the case then you would need two HPWC to charge the TriMotor at it's maximum rate. The other reason for thinking they may do this is that lots of Tesla owners, such as yourself (and I) have or are planning to have multiple Tesla (and/or other) BEVs and thus multiple Level 2 EVSE.

To continue with the description of the current (Gen 3) HPWC: each, as indicated above, requires its own separate (60 A circuit if it is to deliver 48 A) but the charging load among up to 16 of them can be shared. They can be anywhere on the same WiFi network i.e. one in a garage in the main house and one in an outbuilding (or in the parking garage of a business which I think is the main motivation for the design) but I think the most common application will be for pairs each on a 60A breaker in a subpanel in a residential garage. Now this sub panel can be as big as your service and building layout allow. For example, it could be a 100 A subpanel with two 60 A breakers in it each feeding a Gen 3 HPWC. You are thinking "Wait a minute, you can't put 120 A of breakers in a 100A subanel!" Well, yes you can if, and this is a big if, the inspector is happy with it. First the facts: Two Tesla's running full bore, one each on each of the two HPWC would only draw 96 A, below the sub panels breaker's trip point. But clearly the intention is that this subpanel should, as it is supplying EVSE, never see more than 80 A load. So you set the master HPWC to a maximum charging load of 80 A, shared between the two HPWC, and the inspector should be happy. The two cars would then get 40 A each instead of 48 and take 48/40 = 1.2 times as long to charge. If you are OK with that, fine, but you could also put in a 125 A breaker for the subpanel, set the maximum shared load to 100 A and be able to charge two cars at the maximum they can take - 48 A each. The inspector will not have any grounds for complaint. The penalty in this approach is that the subpanel will have to be wired with AWG 1 instead of AWG 3. AWG 3 is a big PITA and 1 only worse. The information above should illustrate the importance of working with a qualified electrician - one who understands what makes the local inspector happy (and I don't mean a Benjamin folded into a matchbook). He should be able to advise on which of the two approaches (or others) makes sense given your desires (functional and budgetary).

So now that we know Tesla's perspective on Level 2 charging we can get to your question. NEMA 6 - 50 and 14-50 plugs are both rated 50 A and can thus supply 40 A to a charging Tesla. This is less than the maximum the vehicle can take. 48 A means somewhat faster charging. Whether the 20% extra is something you really want or not is up to you. 14-50 is certainly the more common of the two these days as they are found in any trailer park that takes large RVs and there is probably one in your house where the range/oven is even if it is a gas range/oven. So from that perspective I suppose the 14-50 is to be preferred. Note that your Tesla will come with a universal mobile "charger" which will accept a variety of plugs including a 14-50 (one used to be supplied with each car but now you have to buy one). Because of a quirk in the code a 14-50 can be installed on a 40 A circuit and in an abundance of caution the Tesla adapter limits charging to 32 A (lawyers!).


@ajdelange chime in, please! By heavily reduced, I mean, it's a Chargepoint that my local utility will pay for $500 of the $699 cost.[/QUOTE] In terms of which plug to get I say the 14 - 50 but you can't get 48A from that - in fact you can't get more than 40 A with any plug in EVSE. Has the utility specified that you must get a plug in unit? Will they subsidize a 48 A (Chargepoint home Flex 48A). I don't know these units. I think they may be the same except that if you want 50 A you can't use a plug i.e. you must hard wire the unit. There is no reason you can't charge a Tesla from a Chargepoint unit using the J1772 adapter (which is still included with the car). I also don't know about the networking abilities of the Chargepoint units except that they do have network connection.

Is there a clear benefit to having a Tesla charger at home? Ease of plugging in or anything? Not having to mess with adapters? A little help here will be greatly appreciated.

I don't know that there is any particular advantage to the Tesla system for a residential install unless it's a brand loyalty thing. No, you wouldn't have to fiddle with the adapter but were I to go with a J1772 charger I think I'd just get an extra adapter and leave in on the chargers hose permanently (so I'd always have one that came with the car on board). The adapters do break sometimes but the other stuff breaks too.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Aces-Truck]

I've read a bunch about all this on the Tesla forum. AJ has it right, from what I've read. There are two more considerations:

1) some posters are concerned about the plug (14-50, or really any plug) being a potential resistance point, building up heat at some future time. So they are strongly in favor of hard-wiring the Tesla branded HPWC. Don't know if that's a real problem or not. If you Plug/unplug a lot, maybe.
2) Those that want the potential for higher charge rates prefer the gen 2 version. But the house wiring and breaker both need to match that, to get the benefit. Also the Gen 2 comes with a longer charge cord. IDK if 24' vs 18' is a big deal or not; as long as you plan your location well. Gen 2 chargers are still available to purchase. Gen 3 is what Elon wants in the future. I think it's in part because the Gen 3 has it's own WiFi control setup. This means you can change settings w/o a car plugged in at the time.

For me, My plan is to wire for 60A 220V to a 14-50 Plug; then continue the wires to a hardwired Gen 3 HPWC. If I later get a second EV, I could use the 14-50, with lowering the amp setting on original HPWC. Or I could even hardwire a second HPWC from the box where the 14-50 plug is. If I were really serious about two EV's and heavy usage by both, I'd probably wire two separate 60A lines, with separate circuit breakers.

 

[ReddykwRun]

I've read a bunch about all this on the Tesla forum. AJ has it right, from what I've read. There are two more considerations:

1) some posters are concerned about the plug (14-50, or really any plug) being a potential resistance point, building up heat at some future time. So they are strongly in favor of hard-wiring the Tesla branded HPWC. Don't know if that's a real problem or not. If you Plug/unplug a lot, maybe.
2) Those that want the potential for higher charge rates prefer the gen 2 version. But the house wiring and breaker both need to match that, to get the benefit. Also the Gen 2 comes with a longer charge cord. IDK if 24' vs 18' is a big deal or not; as long as you plan your location well. Gen 2 chargers are still available to purchase. Gen 3 is what Elon wants in the future. I think it's in part because the Gen 3 has it's own WiFi control setup. This means you can change settings w/o a car plugged in at the time.

For me, My plan is to wire for 60A 220V to a 14-50 Plug; then continue the wires to a hardwired Gen 3 HPWC. If I later get a second EV, I could use the 14-50, with lowering the amp setting on original HPWC. Or I could even hardwire a second HPWC from the box where the 14-50 plug is. If I were really serious about two EV's and heavy usage by both, I'd probably wire two separate 60A lines, with separate circuit breakers.

You beat me to it. Hardwire is the best route. Sometimes people only think in terms of "what kind of plug" and forget you can hardwire it and get more juice.

 

[ajdelange]

There does seem to be some concern about plugs as the latest version of the NEC prohibits plug connections with bigger than 50 A receptacles thus limiting plug in chargers to 40 A or less. There are workarounds but they are not code compliant in the US. Or are they? IMO this is a bit of a gray area.

 

[TyPope]

I'm going to put in a lot of background information here before I get to your question. This will help you understand my answer better.

The situation as of today is that the BEV industry seems to have settled on 48 Amperes at 240 V (11.52 kW) as the maximum rating for a Level 2 charger. Because a EVSE is considered to be a continuous load (on for more than 3 hours which, of course, it often is) it must be supplied by a circuit with 25% more capacity than it draws, in this case, 60 A. Note that the NEC requires that any EVSE supply circuit that draws more than that must be isolatable by a lockable disconnect. Tesla's older wall chargers could supply up to 80 A requiring a 100 A circuit and, thus, the disconnect. Up to four of them could share one circuit thus supplying up to 4 cars 20 A each or one car with dual 40 A chargers (no longer available), one of their later X or S models with triple 24 A charging modules with 8 A left for a second car or any combination that didn't exceed 80 A - all from the same circuit breaker with the "master" HPWC apportioning the current via a hard wired com pair. The new approach (HPWC Gen 3) is quite different. A Gen 3 HPWC is limited to no more than 48 A matching the largest charger found in the current production cars and what I expect to see in the CT's with the thought that there may be tow charge ports in the TriMotor as it has longer range. This thought is stimulated by the fact that the Semi apparently has multiple charging ports. If that turns out to be the case then you would need two HPWC to charge the TriMotor at it's maximum rate. The other reason for thinking they may do this is that lots of Tesla owners, such as yourself (and I) have or are planning to have multiple Tesla (and/or other) BEVs and thus multiple Level 2 EVSE.

To continue with the description of the current (Gen 3) HPWC: each, as indicated above, requires its own separate (60 A circuit if it is to deliver 48 A) but the charging load among up to 16 of them can be shared. They can be anywhere on the same WiFi network i.e. one in a garage in the main house and one in an outbuilding (or in the parking garage of a business which I think is the main motivation for the design) but I think the most common application will be for pairs each on a 60A breaker in a subpanel in a residential garage. Now this sub panel can be as big as your service and building layout allow. For example, it could be a 100 A subpanel with two 60 A breakers in it each feeding a Gen 3 HPWC. You are thinking "Wait a minute, you can't put 120 A of breakers in a 100A subanel!" Well, yes you can if, and this is a big if, the inspector is happy with it. First the facts: Two Tesla's running full bore, one each on each of the two HPWC would only draw 96 A, below the sub panels breaker's trip point. But clearly the intention is that this subpanel should, as it is supplying EVSE, never see more than 80 A load. So you set the master HPWC to a maximum charging load of 80 A, shared between the two HPWC, and the inspector should be happy. The two cars would then get 40 A each instead of 48 and take 48/40 = 1.2 times as long to charge. If you are OK with that, fine, but you could also put in a 125 A breaker for the subpanel, set the maximum shared load to 100 A and be able to charge two cars at the maximum they can take - 48 A each. The inspector will not have any grounds for complaint. The penalty in this approach is that the subpanel will have to be wired with AWG 1 instead of AWG 3. AWG 3 is a big PITA and 1 only worse. The information above should illustrate the importance of working with a qualified electrician - one who understands what makes the local inspector happy (and I don't mean a Benjamin folded into a matchbook). He should be able to advise on which of the two approaches (or others) makes sense given your desires (functional and budgetary).

So now that we know Tesla's perspective on Level 2 charging we can get to your question. NEMA 6 - 50 and 14-50 plugs are both rated 50 A and can thus supply 40 A to a charging Tesla. This is less than the maximum the vehicle can take. 48 A means somewhat faster charging. Whether the 20% extra is something you really want or not is up to you. 14-50 is certainly the more common of the two these days as they are found in any trailer park that takes large RVs and there is probably one in your house where the range/oven is even if it is a gas range/oven. So from that perspective I suppose the 14-50 is to be preferred. Note that your Tesla will come with a universal mobile "charger" which will accept a variety of plugs including a 14-50 (one used to be supplied with each car but now you have to buy one). Because of a quirk in the code a 14-50 can be installed on a 40 A circuit and in an abundance of caution the Tesla adapter limits charging to 32 A (lawyers!).


@ajdelange chime in, please! By heavily reduced, I mean, it's a Chargepoint that my local utility will pay for $500 of the $699 cost.

In terms of which plug to get I say the 14 - 50 but you can't get 48A from that - in fact you can't get more than 40 A with any plug in EVSE. Has the utility specified that you must get a plug in unit? Will they subsidize a 48 A (Chargepoint home Flex 48A). I don't know these units. I think they may be the same except that if you want 50 A you can't use a plug i.e. you must hard wire the unit. There is no reason you can't charge a Tesla from a Chargepoint unit using the J1772 adapter (which is still included with the car). I also don't know about the networking abilities of the Chargepoint units except that they do have network connection.


I don't know that there is any particular advantage to the Tesla system for a residential install unless it's a brand loyalty thing. No, you wouldn't have to fiddle with the adapter but were I to go with a J1772 charger I think I'd just get an extra adapter and leave in on the chargers hose permanently (so I'd always have one that came with the car on board). The adapters do break sometimes but the other stuff breaks too.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Man, that was a great answer. My wife and I commute probably less than 40 miles between the two of us each day so charging at Max capacity is not a huge concern. Shoot, two 110V/20A outlets would get us there but I have a dearth of outlets in the garage for some reason and have already had breakers pop while running a 1,000W heater. So, I'll have to have a line run out there anyway. I have a 2-pole spot open on my 200A panel and it would be about a 22' run. Hmm... I like being able to limit each Tesla charger as they share the load. I can also manually do that through car's software. I want plugging in to be very simple without having to remember cords or adapters. Also, though I don't need it right now, I'd rather have capability to charge two set up now so I can be sure they'll match.

I should probably upgrade my service panel up from 200A... Seems that could get expensive...

 

[ajdelange]

If you don't want to deal with adapters then that lets any solution other than the Tesla HPWC out. It would be a simple enough matter for one of the other manufacturers to put Tesla plugs on their gear but AFAIK they don't. I vaguely recall seeing an offer to do this on custom units but I can't remember where or even be sure I didn't imagine this.

As far as the HPWC sharing: you can't control, AFAIK, the amount going to each car via programming except initially at commissioning but at this point the networking software is not complete. In the Gen 2 you could only control the total so that if a car gets plugged in taking more than half the capacity of the system and another car set for more than half the system capacity comes along then it will only get half and the first car's allocation will drop to half. You can, of course, set the maximum demand of each car but you have to be in the car to do that. It really bugs me that you can't control that from the app.

Given that you are going to install two HPWC there is going to be a subpanel with two fairly substantial breakers in it. An inspector may well cast a jaundiced eye at that on a 200 A service. When contemplating going to BEV comtemplation of larger service is often part of that process. There are guidelines for calculating how many amps worth of breakers can go into a panel. Typically a 200 A panel (which is 400 phase amps as I like to call them as there are two phases) won't attract attention with double that number (800 phase amperes) of breakers. If you have that kind of population and then add a 100 A (200 phase ampere) subpanel I'd expect an objection. This is where a good electrician comes in. He'd know what the local inspectors will likely accept. He'll get some indication as to what he can do during the permitting process. Adding two charging stations to a 200 A panel, even if they are limited to 30 A might be a hard sell. But you can prevail if you have evidence that your 200 A service is adequate. For example, i've got a 125 A subpanel AND a 100 A charging circuit AND a whole bunch of other loads including emergency electrical heaters, heat pumps, air compressors etc. on a 200 A panel and the inspector arched an eyebrow. But I can show him that I have never drawn more than 119.3 amps from that panel including charging my X at 72 A and he is happy with that. Obviously you need to install equipment (I recommend eGauge) to collect that data and do some analysis and that equipment comes with a price tag but it may be cheaper than upgrading service which, in fact, you may not need to do.

Let me amplify a bit on satisfying the inspector because actually I wasn't the one who did that. It was the electrician and the reason I'm mentioning it again is to emphasize the importance of having an electrician who is knowledgeable with respect to installing EVSE and tight with the local inspectors.

 

[Old Pro]

Hey, I'm getting ready to wire my garage for charging a MY and CT... I know there is a lot unknown about the CT but I have an opportunity to get a heavily reduced charger and need to know NEMA 6-50 or 14-50 .... which is better and why? @ajdelange chime in, please! By heavily reduced, I mean, it's a Chargepoint that my local utility will pay for $500 of the $699 cost.
Is there a clear benefit to having a Tesla charger at home? Ease of plugging in or anything? Not having to mess with adapters? A little help here will be greatly appreciated.

Here's a couple of items from Tesla that may help you.

 

[ajdelange]

That material is outdated. The Gen 2 wall HPWC as described has been discontinued to be replaced by the smaller (48 A as opposed to 80 A) Gen 3 HPWC which is easier to install and has WiFi capabilities.

Nonetheless this is a good opportunity to remind people who have reserved a CT and who already have a Gen 2 HPWC installed that Tesla has temporarily put Gen 2 units back in stock so that people who want to add a second HPWC in anticipation of the eventual arrival of a CT, other Tesla or indeed any BEV can easily do so as it's much easier to add a second Gen 2 to an existing Gen 2 than it is to add a Gen 3. So if you are in that boat order a Gen 2 now while you can. Of course they will probably still be available on Ebay when Tesla does discontinue them permanently.

 

[Old Pro]

That material is outdated. The Gen 2 wall HPWC as described has been discontinued to be replaced by the smaller (48 A as opposed to 80 A) Gen 3 HPWC which is easier to install and has WiFi capabilities.

Nonetheless this is a good opportunity to remind people who have reserved a CT and who already have a Gen 2 HPWC installed that Tesla has temporarily put Gen 2 units back in stock so that people who want to add a second HPWC in anticipation of the eventual arrival of a CT, other Tesla or indeed any BEV can easily do so as it's much easier to add a second Gen 2 to an existing Gen 2 than it is to add a Gen 3. So if you are in that boat order a Gen 2 now while you can. Of course they will probably still be available on Ebay when Tesla does discontinue them permanently.

I have an opportunity to pick up a new/unused Gen 2 charger to add to my NEMA plug in system for my wife's Model 3 Long Range.
Is it a good idea and will work for the CT?