How much kwh will the electric outlet in the bed output?

[TalSet]

Hello dear CTOC Members
This is my first topic, so apologize me for putting this thread into battery & charging. hope it´s fine.

I am completely new here on the forum, and I am glad that I found it
Short introduce: I am a self-deploying building cleaner that want to use the CT as a company vehicle.

I appreciate that forum and will be exciting with sharing and getting information about the Cybertruck ;D

So about the question:

What do you think how much average kwh the power output from the bed will come? It would be great when there would be stable 2000-3000 watt there.

Cheers,

Rudi.

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[Dids]

Hello dear CTOC Members
This is my first topic, so apologize me for putting this thread into battery & charging. hope it´s fine.

I am completely new here on the forum, and I am glad that I found it
Short introduce: I am a self-deploying building cleaner that want to use the CT as a company vehicle.

I appreciate that forum and will be exciting with sharing and getting information about the Cybertruck ;D

So about the question:

What do you think how much average kw/h the power output from the bed will come? It would be great when there would be stable 2000-3000 watt there.

Cheers,

Rudi.

I like the typo... self-deploying (I assume self-employed) but either way a self- employed also has to self-deploy. Maybe you clean self-deploying buildings?
We know its supposed to have both 240v and 120v outputs from the reveal... at 15amp your wattage seems reasonable.

 

[ajdelange]

240 V at 15A would be 3.6 KVA an I am hoping for at least that as there wouldn't be much point in having 240 available at less than that level. I would much prefer to see 30 A at 240 i.e. 7 kVa because that would run a modest size arc welder and a good sized air compressor, pumps of around 7 HP etc. But who knows what they will actually do. I haven't seen any rumors reported. Most of the use would, I suppose, be air compressors of an HP or 2 running air guns on a job site meaning about 15 amps at 120 and/or perhaps miter saws or table saws. All these would dictate 15 - 20 A. But I would also think that modest sized welders might be a reasonable requirement. That gets me thinking closer to 30 A. In the US that suggests a NEMA 14-30R receptacle which is, I believe, fairly common for small to medium sized welders. A draw of 7.2 KW at 50% duty cycle implies that a 200 kWh battery would be discharged 8*3.6/200 = 14.4% during an 8 hour shift which doesn't seem like that much (72 miles of range out of 500). So I'll venture a guess that it's going to be 240V/30A. But anyone's guess is as good as that.

 

[TalSet]

@Dids Sorry, my english is not as good as it should be. I am self-depled, or as we say "I am my own Boss" -

@ajdelange, Well 240V with 30A would be insane. But then I would prefer 16A CEE Power Sockert. Well that are 400V - Maybe there is a Option for that. I am not that good with electronic knowledge, but would 400V with 16A not be better than 240V with 30A ?

 

[Dids]

@Dids Sorry, my english is not as good as it should be. I am self-depled, or as we say "I am my own Boss" -

@ajdelange, Well 240V with 30A would be insane. But then I would prefer 16A CEE Power Sockert. Well that are 400V - Maybe there is a Option for that. I am not that good with electronic knowledge, but would 400V with 16A not be better than 240V with 30A ?

I assume that CT European version would have outputs that match Europe standards since that is probably required by EU laws. My gut says 3 phase will not be an output that is supplied since it would be edge case need and not useful for the majority of tradesmen.

 

[TalSet]

Well Europe (not the EU ! ) / the country in it has multiple Standard, not like US where there are all Type B

Type E primarily used in France, Belgium, Poland, Slovakia & Czechia
Type F mainly used in German, Austria,
Type G mainly used in UK and Ireland
Type J only in Switzerland and Liechtenstein
Type K for Denmark & Greenland
Type L in Italy

I don´t think that Tesla will produce special sockets for each country. ( Or are they doing it allreadyy ? )

 

[ajdelange]

Tesla wird wahrscheinlich die geeignete Steckdose für jeden Markt installieren. Ich verwendete die Steckdose in Nordamerika als Beispiele gefunden. Beachten Sie auch, dass der nordamerikanische Markt ist streng Bi-phase (kein 3ø). Diese wurden für die Art der Ausrüstung würde ich erwarten zu finden hier.

 

[hridge2020]

Es probable que Tesla instale la salida adecuada para cada mercado. Solía encontrar la toma de corriente en América del Norte, como ejemplos. Además, tenga en cuenta que el mercado norteamericano es estrictamente bifásico (no 3ø). Estos fueron para el tipo de equipo que esperaría encontrar aquí.

 

[ldjessee]

I expect 8 to 16 amps at 220/240 to be the max output for the socket...
But I could also see it being dependent on the battery pack... so for single motor, it might be 8, 16 for the dual motor, and 32 for the tri-motor?
Or is that wishful thinking?

 

[TalSet]

32A 220~240 V would be insane. How many kw/h is theoretical possible to take out of the battery ?

I think this option it be:

CT will have the new solid* batteries instead of LI-Ion batteries.
But you can not take out as much as power as from Li-Ion batteries.
Here is what Maxwell technologies can do: SuperCaps.

And I think they will be used for multiple 0-60mph sprints. Cause it´s not possible to do that sprints with the new battery.
So my guess is you can use 32A for short time and 8A for stable time. Depending from the battery you choose


* I hope this translation is correct

 

[ajdelange]

32A 220~240 V would be insane. How many kw/h is theoretical possible to take out of the battery ?

Presumably the battery in the TriMotor will be about 200 kWh discharge capacity so some number close to that. But I think you really want to know how many kW can be taken from the battery. 60 mph is 26.8 m/s at which speed a 3000 kg truck would have kinetic energy of 1.07916e+06 J which it can aquire in accelerating fofr 2.9 seconds from stop. This implies a rate of 1.07916e+06/2.9 = 372125 W or 372 kw. That represents discharge at a rate of 1.9C which isn't insane but still remarkable.

CT will have the new solid* batteries instead of LI-Ion batteries.

It will have some newer batteries than the current technology. I don't think they will be dry electrolyte by then but I am pretty sure Maxwell's dry coating technology will be used to make them.

But you can not take out as much as power as from Li-Ion batteries.

By the vehicle's specifications you will be able to take 1.9C which is, of course 37 times the 10 kW we might think about for an in bed inverter.

Here is what Maxwell technologies can do: SuperCaps.

Elon Musk has said that there will be no Super Caps in Tesla vehicles. Their energy density is way to low for them to be usesful (except perhaps in the infotainmemt system). Where Maxwell comes in is the dry coating technology.

And I think they will be used for multiple 0-60mph sprints. Cause it´s not possible to do that sprints with the new battery.
So my guess is you can use 32A for short time and 8A for stable time. Depending from the battery you choose

32A at 240V single phase is 7.68 kW (keep in mind that the US is the only place where it is written 7.68 - in the rest of the world it would be 7,68). That's only 2% of what the battery could supply in going from 0 to 60 at full acceleration. Assuming 450 wH/mi consumption at 60 mpH (100 km/h) the battery would be supplying 27 kW continuously so 8 kW is not a very big load at all.

Every Tesla built today has an arrangement of 10 transistors and a transformer that can turn single phase AC, biphase AC or 3ø AC at relatively low AC voltage at 50 or 60 Hz to 400 VDC to charge the battery up to 11.7 kW. It is a relatively small matter to turn that device (the charger) into one that converts 400 VDC from the battery into single phase, biphase or 3ø AC at 50 or 60 Hz. Thus the Level 2 charger in the car could fairly easily be modfied to serve as the inverter for the bed receptacles and were that done it would be able to supply up to 48 A (US 240 V biphase market). This would deplete a fully charged 200 kWh battery in 17.4 h. It is, then, clearly feasible for Tesla to put in a 50 A inverter (240 V) with a NEMA 14 - 50R and a couple of NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 so it resembles a contractor's generator. Isn't this feature here in the first place so that a contractor does not have to haul a generator around with him?

Whether Tesla would choose to use the charger circuitry as an inverter for the bed outlets (if they ever contemplate V2G they would have to do so) or install a separate box for that function remains to be seen. The essential point is that an inverter of the same capacity as the charger is demonstrably feasible, clearly would not stress the battery and could easily run typical job site loads for the duration of a shift on well less than 50% of a charge. But there are other considerations the main one being cost. The marginal cost between say 30 A and 50A would, it seems to me, to be small. But we shall see. In any case I am now guessing 30 to 50A (7 - 11 kW).[/QUOTE]

 

[TyPope]

Okay, you got me curious about using the comma instead of a decimal point. I did not know other countries did that. Not all of them do though so saying the rest of the world uses the comma is incorrect, fine sir. Of the ones listed, 58 countries use the decimal point (China, India, and the US are the two largest)

Countries using decimal point
Countries where a dot "." is used as decimal separator include:

• Australia
• Bangladesh
• Botswana
• British West Indies
• Brunei
• Cambodia
• Canada (when using English)
• China, People's Republic of
  • Hong Kong
  • Macau (in Chinese and English text)
• Dominican Republic
• Egypt
• El Salvador
• Ethiopia
• Ghana
• Guatemala
• Guyana
• Honduras
• India
• Ireland
• Israel
• Jamaica
• Japan
• Jordan
• Kenya
• Korea, North
• Korea, South
• Libya
• Lebanon
• Liechtenstein
• Luxembourg (uses both marks officially)
• Malaysia
• Maldives
• Malta
• Mexico
• Mongolia
• Myanmar
• Namibia (uses both marks)
• Nepal
• New Zealand
• Nicaragua
• Nigeria
• Pakistan
• Palestine
• Panama
• Philippines
• Puerto Rico
• Singapore
• South Africa (uses both marks)
• Sri Lanka
• Switzerland
• Taiwan
• Tanzania
• Thailand
• Uganda
• United Kingdom
• United States
• Zimbabwe

And, because I'm a nerd with data, I took a list of country populations and calculated the percentage of the world that uses a decimal point. It is higher than 50%. It only took the top 13 countries to get to over 50% so I didn't see a need to keep calculating.

The point: More than half the world uses the decimal point vice the comma separator for fractions.

 

[ajdelange]

I guess I should have said most of the world that I have traveled extensively in or lived in use the comma separator. The reason for mentioning it at all is that OP is from a part of the world where the comma is used.

What I really learned from your comment is that while I had assumed that Canada used the comma because all my bills, bank statements etc. from Canada use commas the whole country did but that's only the case in Quebec and only when French is being used. If I request my electric bill in English it comes with full stops.

 

[Dids]

Period.

 

[ajdelange]

Someone posted in another thread a schematic for the old model 3 charger and pointed out that the design is intrinsically bidirectional going on to claim that V2G is, therefore, only a software download away. That's ridiculous, of course, but the bidirectional nature of the Tesla basic charger suggests pretty strongly what the in bed inverter might look like. Based on this I think we might assume that the in bed inverter will have capacity similar to the on board charger, will discharge the battery at about the same rate the charger charges it etc.