Powering your home with the Cyber Truck

[C T Rick]

Not sure if this has been discussed on other threads that I tried searching for or not.

Why haven’t any North American electric vehicles come up with an option that allows the battery pack to supply power back to your home during a power outage?

With the fact that Tesla has a Power wall for home and solar use, why can’t they incorporate a large Nema style port to take power from the truck and put it back into the home. Doesn’t necessarily have to have a built in inverter in the truck. That could be sold separately for the home. But give us a power port that can take stored energy and allow us to put it back into our home when needed. Or design a charger, inverter that does both. 50 amp charger, 50 amp inverter.

I have several generators I use for work and at my shop for welding. Even have Several different 100ah agm battery powered inverters that put out 3600 watts surge and 1800 continuous. They have solar controllers built in that allow for solar charging or 120vac charging. Has a very nice battery meter that shows the input, output and life remaining based on the current load.

Imagine all the possibilities of having a huge power supply to supplement your home during an extended outage.

Right now our power company ( Ladwp) and pretty sure others don’t allow solar to power your home when the main grid is down. I guess it’s a safety issue. And of course solar would only be good during sunny daytime hours which doesn’t help when we need it the most. Mornings and nights while home. The only way around this is with a power wall battery supply that’s about


Tesla would have a double double win between selling more vehicles and selling the components to back power your home. Solar city is still family with Elon and he could still keep it in the family.

My work trucks, I’ve installed small 2000 watt inverters running off of a dedicated battery. Sprinter already had the battery under the hood and all the charging and isolation components incorporated when I purchased my first one in 2008.

My Ryobi electric tractor / mower has 4-100 ah batteries and I’ve been thinking of buying a 48 Vdc inverter for it. But with all the generators and inverters I already have, it would be just for a project to show it off.

Am I dreaming or is it a possibility that the CT can be a cyber power supply that otherwise sits in the driveway doing nothing but looking pretty?

Rick.

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[larryboy31]

Not sure if this has been discussed on other threads that I tried searching for or not.

Why haven’t any North American electric vehicles come up with an option that allows the battery pack to supply power back to your home during a power outage?

With the fact that Tesla has a Power wall for home and solar use, why can’t they incorporate a large Nema style port to take power from the truck and put it back into the home. Doesn’t necessarily have to have a built in inverter in the truck. That could be sold separately for the home. But give us a power port that can take stored energy and allow us to put it back into our home when needed. Or design a charger, inverter that does both. 50 amp charger, 50 amp inverter.

I have several generators I use for work and at my shop for welding. Even have Several different 100ah agm battery powered inverters that put out 3600 watts surge and 1800 continuous. They have solar controllers built in that allow for solar charging or 120vac charging. Has a very nice battery meter that shows the input, output and life remaining based on the current load.

Imagine all the possibilities of having a huge power supply to supplement your home during an extended outage.

Right now our power company ( Ladwp) and pretty sure others don’t allow solar to power your home when the main grid is down. I guess it’s a safety issue. And of course solar would only be good during sunny daytime hours which doesn’t help when we need it the most. Mornings and nights while home. The only way around this is with a power wall battery supply that’s about


Tesla would have a double double win between selling more vehicles and selling the components to back power your home. Solar city is still family with Elon and he could still keep it in the family.

My work trucks, I’ve installed small 2000 watt inverters running off of a dedicated battery. Sprinter already had the battery under the hood and all the charging and isolation components incorporated when I purchased my first one in 2008.

My Ryobi electric tractor / mower has 4-100 ah batteries and I’ve been thinking of buying a 48 Vdc inverter for it. But with all the generators and inverters I already have, it would be just for a project to show it off.

Am I dreaming or is it a possibility that the CT can be a cyber power supply that otherwise sits in the driveway doing nothing but looking pretty?

Rick.

I have a device on my electric meter that allows me to plug in my propane generator. I have a 1000 gallon propane tank and I don't allow it to fall below 400 gallons. I think I can plug the 240 outlet on the CT into the house without backfeeding the grid. When I am not using the A/C I use around 13KWH a day. I have all led light bulbs, a frontloading washer, and heat pump water heater. I can still cut back use a little but if I charge the CT for 2 hours a day that will provide all the power I am currently using. I have been without power for 3 days but I think that the CT will allow me to be off the grid for months if the worst happens. The interest in this will grow and I bet there will be a lot more interest in the CT in the gulf coast states. By the time the CT is available this will all be worked out and Elon will be on board.

 

[ajdelange]

Not sure if this has been discussed on other threads that I tried searching for or not.

I would say "beaten to death" might be more like it than "discussed". Nonetheless it is often revealing to re-examine these questions as time goes on.

Why haven’t any North American electric vehicles come up with an option that allows the battery pack to supply power back to your home during a power outage?

The first thing you have to realize is that the batteries in a BEV don't represent that much capacity. Yesterday my house consumed 62.7 kWh. That's 63% of the battery in my X. If I used it to run my house it wouldn't be available to run my car. So I don't want to rely on my means of transportation, which may become even more essential under the conditions which lead to a power outage, for powering my house. There are other ways to do that (Powerwalls, generators).

Second, while my house took power yesterday at an average rate of 2.6 kW it took it at short term rates up to 10 kW. Thus I would need a generator that could deliver 10 kW (42 A at 240 V). That implies a pretty hefty inverter (the plug would have to be a 14-50R or something like). Tesla, nor any other manufacturer, has seen, up to this point, any reason to install such equipment in their cars. But I do wish there were a small inverter in the X - like the one in my Lexus.

With the fact that Tesla has a Power wall for home and solar use, why can’t they incorporate a large Nema style port to take power from the truck and put it back into the home.

They can and they will. The CT will have an outlet in the bed that might be as big as 30 - 40 A @ 240 but they have not said.

PowerWalls interface direcly into your house wiring. A single one only provides 13 kWh at a peak of 7 kW.

Doesn’t necessarily have to have a built in inverter in the truck.

Where would the power come from if not a built in inverter?

That could be sold separately for the home.

Don't understand that.

But give us a power port that can take stored energy and allow us to put it back into our home when needed.

You'll have it.

Or design a charger, inverter that does both. 50 amp charger, 50 amp inverter.

That's where it gets interesting. The chargers Tesla uses in their vehicles now are 48 A @ 240. The architecture is inherently 2 way. Thus a 48 A inverter is entirely feasible as it perhaps is the same assembly that is used for charging. I have no information whatsoever as to whether Tesla would be inclined to dual-purpose the charger in this way or install a separate inverter to serve the bed outlets. We'll see when the trucks roll out.

Imagine all the possibilities of having a huge power supply to supplement your home during an extended outage.

I'll point out again that 200 kWh at 10 kW peak is not a huge power supply. A 48 kW generator with a 1000 gal propane tank is a huge power supply.

Right now our power company ( Ladwp) and pretty sure others don’t allow solar to power your home when the main grid is down. I guess it’s a safety issue.

Yes it is. If grid goes down when the sun is shining and the inverters are allowed to continue running they would energize the grid if not disable and so endanger linemen who did not follow the required safety protocols. At least that the untilities' argument. Thus the inverters are triggered by the grid. If it goes down, the inverters shut down.

The PowerWalls can simulate the grid so that if you have PowerWalls and solar and the grid goes down the power wall senses grid down, disconnects the house from the grid and then provides the sync for the system. The microinverters keep going and the PowerWalls continue to charge...

And of course solar would only be good during sunny daytime hours which doesn’t help when we need it the most.

...until the sun goes down at which time the PowerWalls assume the load.

Am I dreaming or is it a possibility that the CT can be a cyber power supply..

No. It's a reality unless they change the design. How robust the supply will be we don't yet know but I'm thinking 30 - 40 A. You will need, of course, to install the proper transfer switch and Tesla will need to supply software that allows the truck's inverter to run when the truck is other wise not On.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Sirfun]

Not sure if this has been discussed on other threads that I tried searching for or not.

Why haven’t any North American electric vehicles come up with an option that allows the battery pack to supply power back to your home during a power outage?

With the fact that Tesla has a Power wall for home and solar use, why can’t they incorporate a large Nema style port to take power from the truck and put it back into the home. Doesn’t necessarily have to have a built in inverter in the truck. That could be sold separately for the home. But give us a power port that can take stored energy and allow us to put it back into our home when needed. Or design a charger, inverter that does both. 50 amp charger, 50 amp inverter.

I have several generators I use for work and at my shop for welding. Even have Several different 100ah agm battery powered inverters that put out 3600 watts surge and 1800 continuous. They have solar controllers built in that allow for solar charging or 120vac charging. Has a very nice battery meter that shows the input, output and life remaining based on the current load.

Imagine all the possibilities of having a huge power supply to supplement your home during an extended outage.

Right now our power company ( Ladwp) and pretty sure others don’t allow solar to power your home when the main grid is down. I guess it’s a safety issue. And of course solar would only be good during sunny daytime hours which doesn’t help when we need it the most. Mornings and nights while home. The only way around this is with a power wall battery supply that’s about


Tesla would have a double double win between selling more vehicles and selling the components to back power your home. Solar city is still family with Elon and he could still keep it in the family.

My work trucks, I’ve installed small 2000 watt inverters running off of a dedicated battery. Sprinter already had the battery under the hood and all the charging and isolation components incorporated when I purchased my first one in 2008.

My Ryobi electric tractor / mower has 4-100 ah batteries and I’ve been thinking of buying a 48 Vdc inverter for it. But with all the generators and inverters I already have, it would be just for a project to show it off.

Am I dreaming or is it a possibility that the CT can be a cyber power supply that otherwise sits in the driveway doing nothing but looking pretty?

Rick.

Hi Rick, welcome to the forum. The search term you need is "V2H" that means Vehicle 2 Home. As AJ mentioned there's been lots of conversation about it, I'm in the same camp as you. I want my Cybertruck to be doing much more than just sitting in the driveway looking pretty.
Search V2H, and enjoy the reading. Also look at the thread from Battery day. Elon was given a question about V2H and his answer wasn't very promising from my perspective.

 

[Sirfun]

I looked up the Battery Day video. At 3:18:52 They talk about Vehicle to grid and bi-directional charging.

 

[ajdelange]

Real V2H would be like what happened here 15 minutes ago. Tstorm rolled through and in the middle of it my computer beeps and a window appears saying "Warning, your computer is running on backup power". That disappears after a couple of seconds. A bit after that I get an e-mail notifying me that my generator is running. All appears normal. I didn't have to do a thing. The grid loss was sensed automatically, the generator started automatically and when it was up to voltage my house got switched over to the generator automatically in the process isolating it from the grid. Should my family decide to turn on all the ovens, clothes dryers, lights and emergency heater in the house at once the generator would disconnect low priority loads. That's full up "G2H". V2H would be the same except that the backup source would be the vehicle inverter rather than an ICE generator. We aren't going to get that though it is entirely possible for Tesla to write software to support it i.e. software that would communicate with an automatic transfer switch, send e-mail messages, operate load shedding modules etc. But they aren't going to do that. All that you can get from Tesla via the Powerwall product and that's what they want you to do, obviously.

What you are going to get is exactly like what many people have now with a portable generator and manual transfer switch. It is more than adequate for many applications but it is a PITA to have to get up in the middle of the night even if only to start the generator and throw the switch.

 

[Crissa]

You can just do it. With any DC charge capable vehicle.

Why haven't they? I don't know.


-Crissa

 

[azjohn]

The first thing you have to realize is that the batteries in a BEV don't represent that much capacity. Yesterday my house consumed 62.7 kWh. That's 63% of the battery in my X. If I used it to run my house it wouldn't be available to run my car. So I don't want to rely on my means of transportation, which may become even more essential under the conditions which lead to a power outage, for powering my house. There are other ways to do that (Powerwalls, generators).

Pretty much what I have been thinking, I would much rather keep the power in my BEV and use a generator powered by natural gas/propane in a power shortage

IMO the OP has a great setup already

 

[C T Rick]

Thanks for the answers and the search term V2H. Lots of reading to catch up on.

AJ, what I meant by an external inverter was to keep it simpler and not add an additional Dc to 120/240 vac In the CT.

Yes I have a ton of options with generators and battery inverters. But that’s me. Can you imagine how many people would jump in the bandwagon If you sell them an EV and give them the option to have a back up power supply. Even if it’s just a manual transfer switch.

Fortunately out here in So. Calif we are mainly Natural gas and not electric appliances. Heating the home and water is Natural Gas for the most part. Ovens are a toss up between gas and electric. Other than a pool pump and Air conditioning, our electrical loads are lower and our priorities can be focused onto more important electrical needs.

Power outages here are usually less than a couple of hours. We don’t get the storms like other parts of the country. So long termPower is not necessarily an important feature here.

I have a 50 AH ups running my modem for phone and internet. And it’s easy to plug in a fridge, tv , lighting when needed without the need for any disconnects or transfer switches. I remember the first time I needed to plug my fridge in when the power was off and needed to pull the fridge from the cabinetry. Yes a pain. But now I added a 6’ extension cord that’s looped to the front side of the fridge and is easily accessible to swap connections when needed.

I have a handful of customers with automatic backup generators. But the rest have nothing. Even though a large number have electric vehicles with the majority being Tesla’s. It’s a win win if Tesla would incorporate a simple power supply in their vehicles. If the CT has a 30-40 amp 120/240 out like you mentioned, a simple off the shelf Generator extension cord with outlets would suffice. Transfer switch wouldn’t be necessary for the most part.

Rick.

 

[ajdelange]

If the CT has a 30-40 amp 120/240 out like you mentioned, a simple off the shelf Generator extension cord with outlets would suffice. Transfer switch wouldn’t be necessary for the most part.

One of the fondest memories from the many years I have spent with my dear Mrs. is of the events just after we moved into a new house which has (we still live there) a well. As soon as I realized that I understood that no power meant no showers, no toilets, no drinking water so when we were at Home Depot I bought a portable contractor generator and listened to "What a waste of money", "We'll never use that", "It's just one of your toys" all the way home. Within days the power went out for a week.

Nice story for sure but the reason for posting it is to get around to the question: "How do you hook your well pump to a portable generator (or CT) with an extension cord?" It's a rhetorical question. I'm posting it to stimulate thought and I'm not giving the answer for obvious reasons.

 

[C T Rick]

Nice story for sure but the reason for posting it is to get around to the question: "How do you hook your well pump to a portable generator (or CT) with an extension cord?" It's a rhetorical question. I'm posting it to stimulate thought and I'm not giving the answer for obvious reasons.

As a plumbing contractor/ plumber for 45 years, well pumps come up under a handful of fingers out here.
As I’ve mentioned before, Los Angeles where Elon has multiple back to back homes is serviced by city utilities, water, power and sewage systems. Los Angeles is a huge market for Tesla and seems like all the major malls have a Tesla sales store. That’s where I put my deposit on Black Friday.

Sump pumps are typically used for basement additions, or area drains that can’t make grade to the street. Our property lots are on average under 7500 square feet. Homes averaging 2000 square feet. So our needs are different than large scale properties that don’t have city utilities.

Not 100% sure, but it sure seems like Los Angeles/ Beverly Hills / Santa Monica / Culver City is the Tesla/ Ev capital of the world. At least based on the traffic and all the Tesla’s /EV sitting in traffic along with my clients Driveways.

Large properties would need a real transfer switch hardwired into the panel for all their needs. Of course some of my clients do have automatic transfer switches including a property with a 100kw natural gas generator.

Gas company Met with the owner , contractor and myself and gave us the green light that there was plenty of gas service coming up to the property. Sure enough when it was needed for a real outage, the gas coming to the property couldn’t supply enough volume for all the gas appliances and generator. 300’ sloped driveway and $45,000 later. The gas company had to up their service. Fortunately I had the email from the gas co’s original approval. They ate the expense to upgrade the service.

So for the most part, a simple generator cord and some extension cords would get us by for a Typical once a year Outage out here. For other parts of the country, probably not as simple.

Rick.

 

[ajdelange]

As a plumbing contractor/ plumber for 45 years, well pumps come up under a handful of fingers out here.

I'm not familiar with that terminology. From my POV a well is served via a 240V circuit with a breaker found in one of the houses breaker panels.

My house, BTW is in a suburb within a few miles of the White House but it still has a well as do many, many properties in our area.

The point I'm trying to make is that while an extension cord fits many there are many it doesn't.

 

[hobbit11]

if one has a solar grid array, as i do, give me the option to use my CT in the capacity i so choose. set the discharge at whatever cutoff point one wishes. a generator is a pain in the ass and whether natural gas fired or gasoline fired, still emits pollutants. if my solar array captures what our sun sends during the day to power my home and send the excess to my CT during the day, WE WIN. Screw the utility company and it's antiquated grid, clean the air and money back in our pockets because we were willing to do the research and make good decisions for now and the future.

 

[ajdelange]

Well you'd better do the research then.

 

[larryboy31]

You can just do it. With any DC charge capable vehicle.


How long will the battery in that cycle power that house? If they turned off the outside lights and some of the inside ones it might last the evening but not much longer. A CT will have 20x or more power available but you can still piss it away pretty fast unless you use some common sense. I don't think these guys are ready to live off the grid no matter how big the battery is in the CT. Shut off all the "standing" lights. Pull all the wall warts. Rig up a clothes line. Unscrew one or two bulbs in multi bulb fixtures. There are dozens of things one can do to reduce power demand, especially in the short run. I would unplug an electric water heater and the freezer if I was dealing with a crossed wire or burned out transformer. That will be fixed pretty soon. If you intend to use a CT or power wall to power your house in a grid down situation you may want to look at what you can do to reduce your power demand. If A/C is vital you might invest in a window unit that will cool a bedroom at night. Stop buying old fashioned light bulbs and buy LEDs. As the old ones burn out replace them. You will be replacing the most used bulbs first and your electric bill will reflect that. I live in a 3000 square ft. modern house. My electric useage is around 13KWH per day unless I am running the A/C. If I go into full power saving mode I figure I can run the house on the CT battery for at least a week without charging. You probably could too.